BELTS

Anetheron's Noose 100 Anetheron Cloth Caster DPS
Angelista's Sash 75 Kaz'rogal Cloth Healing
Belt of Divine Guidance 100 Illidari Council Cloth Healing
Belt of Primal Majesty 75 Gurtogg Bloodboil Leather Healing
Belt of Seething Fury 75 Kaz'rogal Plate Physical DPS
Belt of the Crescent Moon 75 Kaz'rogal Leather Caster DPS
Boneweave Girdle 100 Reliquary of Souls Mail Physical DPS
Don Alejandro's Money Belt 100 Anetheron Leather DPS
Flashfire Girdle 75 Shade of Akama Mail Caster DPS
Girdle of Hope 75 Azgalor Plate Healing
Girdle of Lordaeron's Fallen 75 Teron Gorefiend Plate Healing
Girdle of Mighty Resolve 100 Gurtogg Bloodboil Plate Tanking
Girdle of Stability 100 Gurtogg Bloodboil Plate Tanking
Girdle of the Lightbearer 75 Trash Plate Physical DPS
Naturalist's Preserving Cinch 75 Supremus Mail Healing
Shadow-Walker's Cord 75 Shade of Akama Leather Physical DPS
Valestalker Girdle 75 Kaz'rogal Mail Physical DPS
Waistwrap of Infinity 75 Supremus Cloth Caster DPS

Notes on Belts: All items priced at the default 100 points are considered to be upgrades over pre-MH/BT and craftable gear (possibly not for ALL specs, but at least for some). Exceptions:

Angelista's Sash - Questionable sidegrade to Belt of Long Road, and much better upgrade later in BT (Belt of Divine Guidance)
Belt of Primal Majesty - WTF do resto druids want with spell haste?
Belt of the Crescent Moon - Can't really imagine anyone taking this belt, even if we had a moonkin
Girdle of the Lightbearer - Completely worthless unless Blizzard reitemizes it
Naturalist's Preserving Cinch -Would anyone actually use this over Girdle of Fallen Stars? Seems like this belt isn't really itemized as ILVL 141


BOOTS

Archbishop's Slippers 75 Anetheron Cloth Healing
Black Featherlight Boots 100 Kaz'rogal Leather Physical DPS
Blue Suede Shoes 125 Kaz'rogal Cloth Caster DPS
Boots of Oceanic Fury 125 HW Naj'entus Mail Caster DPS
Boots of the Divine Light 125 Trash Cloth Healing
Dreadboots of the Legion 125 Reliquary of Souls Plate Physical DPS
Enchanted Leather Sandals 125 Anetheron Leather Healing
Myrmidon's Treads 125 Shade of Akama Plate Tanking
Naturewarden's Treads 125 Reliquary of Souls Leather Caster DPS
Pearl Inlaid Boots 125 HW Naj'entus Plate Healing
Quickstrider Moccasins 125 Anetheron Mail Physical DPS
Shadowmaster's Boots 125 Mother Shahraz Leather Physical DPS
Slippers of the Seacaller 125 HW Naj'entus Cloth Caster DPS
Softstep Boots of Tracking 125 Teron Gorefiend Mail Physical DPS
Stillwater Boots 100 Rage Winterchill Mail Healing
Tide-Stomper's Greaves 125 HW Naj'entus Plate Tanking
Treads of the Den Mother 125 Trash Leather Physical DPS

Default price is 125 points, with following exceptions:

Archbishop's Slippers - I can't see anyone taking these when there are far better boots off BT trash and from Zuljin
Black Featherlight Boots - Questionable sidegrade to Utter Darkness, and obvious downgrade to boots later in BT
Stillwater Boots - Downgrade to Badge of Justice boots, except ton more stamina


BRACERS

Bands of the Coming Storm 100 Supremus Mail Caster DPS
Blessed Adamantite Bracers 100 Rage Winterchill Plate Healing
Bracers of Martyrdom 100 Rage Winterchill Cloth Healing
Bracers of Pathfinder 100 Rage Winterchill Mail Physical DPS
Cuffs of Devastation 100 Rage Winterchill Cloth Caster DPS
Deadly Cuffs 100 Rage Winterchill Leather Physical DPS
Elunite Empowered Bracers 100 Reliquary of Souls Leather Caster DPS
Eternium Shell Bracers 100 HW Naj'entus Plate Tanking
Focused Mana Bindings 100 Shade of Akama Cloth Caster DPS
Furious Shackles 100 Rage Winterchill Plate Physical DPS
Howling Wind Bracers 100 Rage Winterchill Mail Healing
Insidious Bands 100 Teron Gorefiend Leather Physical DPS
Rejuvenating Bracers 100 Rage Winterchill Leather Healing
The Seeker's Wristguards 100 Shade of Akama Plate Tanking
Wraps of Precise Flight 100 Supremus Mail Physical DPS
Wristbands of Divine Influence 75 Shade of Akama Cloth Healing

Notes: All bracers actually seem like good upgrades to pre-MH/BT stuff, so priced at the default 100, except for Wristbands of Divine Influence which for some reason are unequivocally worse than Bracers of Martyrdom off Rage Winterchill even though they are off a much later boss.


SHOULDERS

Amice of Brilliant Light 125 Shade of Akama ClothHealing
Beast-Tamer's Shoulders 100 Kaz'rogal Mail Physical DPS
Blood-Cursed Shoulderpads 100 Gurtogg Bloodboil Cloth Caster DPS
Blood-Stained Pauldrons 125 Rage Winterchill Plate Physical DPS
Glimmering Steel Mantle 125 Anetheron Plate Healing
Hatefury Mantle 125 Anetheron Cloth Caster DPS
Mantle of Darkness 125 HW Naj'entus Leather Physical DPS
Pauldrons of Abyssal Fury 125 Supremus Plate Tanking
Razorfury Mantle 100 Kaz'rogal Leather Physical DPS
Shoulders of the Hidden Predator 125 Shade of Akama Mail Physical DPS
The Wavemender's Mantle 100 Reliquary of Souls Mail Healing
Tier 6 Shoulders 150 Mother Shahraz ALL ALL
Veil of Turning Leaves 100 Illidari Council Leather Healing

Notes: All shoulders seem to fit into 2 categories. Most can be described as "worse than Tier 6, but the best until we get to Mother Shahraz" (remember that Tier 6 Shoulders are FAR down the line, not like Tier 5 off Loot Reaver), and priced at 125 points compared to Tier 6 at 150. A few shoulders are priced lower at 100, since they either actually seem worse than tier 5 (Wavemender's, Turning Leaves), are worse than shoulders off previous MH bosses (Blood-Cursed), or are inexplicably itemized (Beast-Tamer's).


OFFHANDS

Blind-Seers Icon 75 Shade of Akama - Caster DPS
Chronicle of Dark Secrets 100 Rage Winterchill - Caster DPS
Scepter of Purification 100 Archimonde - Healing
Touch of Inspiration 100 Reliquary of Souls - Healing


Notes: Default price is 100, so that covers Chronicle of Dark Secrets and Touch of Inspiration. The Blind-Seers Icon actually seems worse than the offhand off Rage, so it is priced lower. And the Scepter of Purification off Archimonde doesn't seem any better than Touch of Inspiration even though it is higher ILVL, so it's priced the same


1H PHYSICAL WEAPONS

Blade of Infamy 125 Anetheron
Blade of Savagery 125 Mother Shahraz
Boundless Agony 100 Azgalor
Messenger of Fate 100 Gurtogg Bloodboil
Rising Tide 125 HW Naj'entus
Shard of Azzinoth 100 Illidan Stormrage
Swiftsteel Bludgeon 100 Trash
Syphon of the Nathrezim 125 Supremus
The Brutalizer 125 Supremus
The Unbreakable Will 125 Anetheron
Tracker's Blade 100 Rage Winterchill
Warglaive of Azzinoth (MH) 225 Illidan Stormrage
Warglaive of Azzinoth (OH) 175 Illidan Stormrage

Notes on Physical DPS 1H weapons: There are a ton of 100.3 DPS weapons (3 swords, 3 daggers, 2 axes, 2 maces, no fist weapons) that are basically interchangeable depending what weapon you prefer. All are priced at 125, since none will likely be in huge demand, and hopefully people can pick up whichever happen to be upgrades at the time (and also because these weapons are lower DPS than Season3 weapons if you can get rating that high). Shard of Azzinoth is 150 points since it is 106 DPS, and Warglaives of Azzinoth are 200 each since they're freakin legendary (and likely not determined by DKP bidding).



1H CASTER WEAPONS

Crystal Spire of Karabor 200 Illidan Stormrage - Healing
Hammer of Atonement 125 Kaz'rogal - Healing
Hammer of Judgement 125 Trash - Caster DPS
Tempest of Chaos 150 Archimonde - Caster DPS
The Maelstrom's Fury 125 HW Naj'entus - Caster DPS

2H CASTER WEAPONS

Apostle of Argus 175 Archimonde - Healing
Staff of Immaculate Recovery 150 Gurtogg Bloodboil - Healing
Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer 175 Illidan Stormrage - Caster DPS


Notes on Caster weapons: For all ILVL 141 weapons, they seem like decent upgrades over pre-MH/BT counterparts, and slight downgrades to Season3 weapons if you can get them, so I think 125 for 1H and 150 for 2H works well. Added 25 for ILVL 150 weapons since they're obviously better



***********************************************
** UPDATE #2 BELOW
***********************************************

2H PHYSICAL WEAPONS

Cataclysm's Edge 175 Archimonde
Halberd of Desolation 100 HW Naj'entus
Pillar of Ferocity 150 Anetheron
Soul Cleaver 125 Teron Gorefiend
Torch of the Damned 150 Reliquary of Souls

Notes: Halberd of Desolation is a Hunter stat stick, so only 100 points. I think Soul Cleaver is going to be the new World Breaker (weapon for offspecs and/or collectors only), so it should probably be only 125 points. Torch of the Damned is an awesome ILVL 141 weapon, so 150 points. And then Cataclysm's Edge is the highest ILVL 2H in the game (151), but is disappointingly fast speed, so 175 points.


RANGED

Black Bow of the Betrayer 175 Illidan Stormrage
Bristleblitz Striker 175 Archimonde
Legionkiller 100 Supremus
Rifle of the Stoic Guardian 100 Teron Gorefiend
Twisted Blades of Zarak 100 Teron Gorefiend

Notes: Rifle of Stoic Guardian and Twisted Blades of Zarak are warrior/rogue stat sticks, so only 100 points. The Betrayer and Bristleblitz bows are both ILVL 151 and almost exactly the same, 175 points on both, as the best ranged weapons in the game. I'm not really sure where to put the Legionkiller, it sort of seems like it's intended to be for hunters who didn't get the bow off Vashj, but then it's also almost as good for a tanking stat stick as the Stoic Guardian gun - maybe 100 points?


WANDS

Naaru-Blessed Life Rod 100 Reliquary of Souls
Wand of Prismatic Focus 100 Gurtogg Bloodboil

Notes: Yup, they're wands.


SHIELDS

Antonidas's Aegis of Rapt Concentration 125 Archimonde - Caster DPS
Bastion of Light 125 Anetheron - Healing
Bulwark of Azzinoth 150 Illidan Stormrage - Tanking
Felstone Bulwark 125 Supremus - Healing
Illidari Runeshield 100 Trash - Caster DPS
Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart 125 Kaz'rogal - Tanking

Notes: Setting the default price at 125, just above caster offhands, since they provide the same stat upgrades but also armor. All shields seem like decent upgrades over pre-MH/BT counterparts, except the Elemental Shaman shield off trash mobs which is basically exactly the same as the arena season 2 shield with more stamina instead of resilience, so that one is priced lower. The Illidan tanking shield is higher ILVL, so 150 points.


CLOAKS

Cloak of Illidari Council 125 Illidari Council - Caster DPS
Nethervoid Cloak 125 Trash - Caster DPS
Pepe's Shroud of Pacification 125 Trash - Tanking
Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape 125 Teron Gorefiend - Physical DPS
Shroud of Forgiveness 125 Gurtogg Bloodboil - Healing
Shroud of the Final Stand 125 Trash - Healing
Shroud of the Highborne 125 Illidan Stormrage - Healing

Notes: All ILVL141 cloaks are good ugprades over pre-MH/BT loot. The ILVL151 Shroud of Highborne is underwhelming for higher ILVL, so priced the same.


NECKLACES

Choker of Endless Nightmares 125 Supremus - Physical DPS
Choker of Serrated Blades 100 Trash - Physical DPS
Hellfire-Encased Pendant 125 Trash - Caster DPS
Nadina's Pendant of Purity 125 Mother Shahraz - Healing
Pendant of Titans 125 Reliquary of Souls - Tanking
Translucent Spellthread Necklace 125 Reliquary of Souls - Caster DPS

Notes: All necklaces are ILVL141 and worth the default 125 DKP, except I really don't know about that Choker of Serrated Blades. It has tons of stamina, no crit or hit, and only armor penetration instead. Would anyone actually use that?


TRINKETS

Madness of the Betrayer 175 Illidari Council - Physical DPS
Memento of Tyrande 200 Illidan Stormrage - Healing
Shadowmoon Insignia 175 Gurtogg Bloodboil - Tanking
The Skull of Gul'dan 200 Illidan Stormrage - Caster DPS

Notes: All of these trinkets are ridiculously good, and will be the main items that DKP hoarders are saving for. The two trinkets off Illidan (ILVL 151) are far far better than any other trinket in the game, so priced at 200 - and the two trinkets are ILVL 141 are still incredibly good so 175 seems fair.


RINGS

Band of Devastation 100 Trash - Physical DPS
Band of the Abyssal Lord 125 Supremus - Tanking
Blessed Band of Karabor 100 Trash - Healing
Ring of Ancient Knowledge 100 Trash - Caster DPS
Ring of Calming Waves 125 HW Naj'entus - Healing
Ring of Captured Storms 125 HW Naj'entus - Caster DPS
Ring of Deceitful Intent 125 Shade of Akama - Physical DPS
Stormrage Signet Ring 150 Illidan Stormrage - Physical DPS
Unstoppable Aggressor's Ring 125 Gurtogg Bloodboil - Physical DPS

Notes: All rings off bosses seem like good upgrades, priced at the default 125. Stormrage Signet Ring off Illidan is awesome, so 150 points. I'm not really sure what to do on the three BT trash ring drops - I was thinking maybe price all at 100 since they seem to drop alot, and are not unique so people may want two for testing out haste rating. Could maybe end up raising that to 125 if they seem like they're in high demand.


GLOVES

Botanist's Gloves of Growth 100 Teron Gorefiend Leather Healing
Fists of Mukoa 100 HW Naj'entus Mail Physical DPS
Gauntlets of Enforcement 100 Teron Gorefiend Plate Tanking
Gloves of Unfailing Faith 100 Reliquary of Souls Cloth Healing
Grips of Damnation 100 Reliquary of Souls Leather Physical DPS
Grips of Silent Justice 100 Shade of Akama Plate Physical DPS
Pillager's Gauntlets 100 Trash Plate Physical DPS
Spiritwalker Gauntlets 100 Shade of Akama Mail Healing
Tier 6 Gloves 125 Azgalor ALL ALL

Notes: In SSC/TK, most non-set gloves actually drop off Vashj/Kael and have higher ILVL than T5 (so we priced them equal). But for whatever reason, in MH/BT, all gloves are off early bosses and lower ILVL than the setpieces. Also, just about every glove has haste rating on it and is otherwise itemized very haphazardly. So I think they should just all be priced at 100, same as bracers and such - pretty much all of these gloves are questionable sidegrades to T5 and obviously worse than T6. If any of these gloves are actually "must-have" in comparison with T5, or sidegrades to T6, please let me know.


LEGGINGS

Bow-Stiched Leggings 150 Azgalor Mail Physical DPS
Kilt of Immortal Nature 150 Shade of Akama Leather Healing
Leggings of Channeled Elements 150 Kaz'rogal Cloth Caster DPS
Leggings of Devastation 125 Mother Shahraz Cloth Caster DPS
Leggings of Divine Retribution 150 Gurtogg Bloodboil Plate Physical DPS
Leggings of Eternity 175 Archimonde Cloth Healing
Legguards of Endless Rage 150 Archimonde Plate Physical DPS
Praetorian's Legguards 150 Shade of Akama Plate Tanking
Shady Dealer's Pantaloons 125 Azgalor Leather Physical DPS
Sun-Touched Chain Leggings 150 Kaz'rogal Mail Healing
Tier 6 Leggings 150 Illidari Council ALL ALL

Notes: For every one of these leggings, they actually look like an upgrade over Tier6 (which in all cases, comes off a later boss). So for all ILVL141 leggings, I priced them equal to T6 since they are upgrades, but lack set bonuses. For the Leggings of Eternity (ILVL151), these are so much better than Tier6 that I priced them at 175. For the other ILVL151 Leggings of Endless Rage, they don't seem any better than T6 so still priced at 150.



HELMETS

Cowl of Benevolence 150 Teron Gorefiend Cloth Healing
Cowl of the Illidari High Lord 175 Illidan Stormrage Cloth Caster DPS
Crown of Empowered Fate 150 Reliquary of Souls Plate Healing
Cursed Vision of Sargeras 175 Illidan Stormrage Leather Physical DPS
Faceplate of the Impenetrable 175 Illidan Stormrage Plate Tanking
Forest Prowler's Helm 150 Illidari Council Mail Physical DPS
Guise of the Tidal Lurker 150 HW Naj'entus Leather Healing
Helm of Soothing Currents 150 HW Naj'entus Mail Healing
Helm of the Illidari Shatterer 150 Illidari Council Plate Physical DPS
Tier 6 Helmet 175 Archimonde ALL ALL

Notes: All ILVL141 helmets seem very good, ranging from "slightly below T6" to "arguably better than T6". I priced all at 150, just below the T6 price. The three ILVL151 helmets off Illidan, are all clearly better than the corresponding T6 helmet, except that you miss out on set bonuses - so these are priced the same as T6 at 175.


CHESTS

Chestguard of Relentless Storms 150 Trash Mail Caster DPS
Don Rodrigo's Poncho 150 Azgalor Leather Healing
Garments of Temperance 150 Gurtogg Bloodboil Cloth Healing
Glory of the Defender 150 Azgalor Plate Tanking
Golden Links of Restoration 150 Anetheron Mail Healing
Heartshatter Breastplate 150 Mother Shahraz Plate Physical DPS
Mail of Fevered Pursuit 175 Archimonde Leather Physical DPS
Midnight Chestguard 200 Archimonde Leather Physical DPS
Nether Shadow Tunic 150 Supremus Leather Physical DPS
Robe of the Shadow Council 125 Teron Gorefiend Cloth Caster DPS
Robes of Rhonin 200 Archimonde Cloth Caster DPS
Savior's Grasp 100 Archimonde Plate Healing
Tier 6 Chest 200 Illidan Stormrage ALL ALL
Vest of Mounting Assault 150 Gurtogg Bloodboil Mail Physical DPS

Notes: Chestpieces are always the hardest to price, because you have to compare to Tier6 chest off a later boss, and then also Tier5 off Kael'thas, but then since most people won't get T5 chest you have to also consider T4 and/or various common non-set pieces, etc. The chestpieces listed above seemed to fall into 4 different categories:

200 points - At ILVL 151, Midnight Chestguard and Robes of Rhonin are WTF good, better than T6 (before set bonuses), so priced the same.
175 points - Mail of Fevered Pursuit may be ILVL151, but it seems weak compared to T6, so priced slightly under.
150 points - Default price for many chestpieces that are slight upgrades or sidegrades to T5 (which you can't assume everyone has), but worse than T6.
125 points - Robe of the Shadow Council is more like a sidegrade to Robe of Hateful Echoes (and doesn't compare at all to T5/SeaWitch), so priced less.
100 points - Savior's Grasp is the new Glowing Breastplate of Truth - which has been DE'd whenever we didn't have a new recruit to trick into taking it. So only 100 points.


RELICS

Idol of the White Stag 50 Supremus
Tome of the Lightbringer 100 Mother Shahraz
Totem of Ancestral Guidance 100 Teron Gorefiend

Notes: Seriously, no idea AT ALL.

UPDATE #1: Added preliminary DKP pricing for Boots, Belts, Bracers, weapons, Shoulders, and Offhands (those particular things chosen first since they include Rage Winterchill's entire loot table).

Default prices for each particular gear slot are intended to be approximately consistent with the scheme we used for SSC/TK. I am not totally familiar with all types of gear, so please post any feedback here regarding items that you think should be priced differently (preferrably with examples of other gear that is better/worse to illustrate your points)!

I'll finish the rest of the stuff later, I'm too sleepy now

Thanks Tarja!

Thanks Tarja, I know from experience what a PITA lists like this can be. My favorite quote:

I think this list looks really good. Has it been decided whether or not we're going to keep our dkp for ssc/tk for h/bt too, or will it be reset for those instances? (I heard something like the latter but eh, not from the horse's mouth :P)

You won't keep them. It will be a new system. We are however going to start the new system out with slight bonuses based on attendance for the practice Vashj and Kael attempts.

This is one of those ridiculous understatements made for comedic effect, no?

Fingers crossed.

You wish!

We'll be using a complex formula based on how much practice dkp you've earned and the number of MC deaths you've caused. Needless to say, some people will be negative to start out with.

I'm SO f'ed never making it on sundays

fix't

To confirm, we're going to start the T6 dkp system by adding all the practice dkp people ever earned for Vashj and Kael and using those as starting values. The dkp values are all pretty low still, so after a few weeks you won't even see the bonus dkp. But we did want to make an effort to reward those that helped us to down the two hardest bosses we've yet faced. That same sort of dedication will be needed to make deep progress in Hyjal and BT.

You actually have to show up in order to MS sheep and gank MC'd melee DPS.

Ladies, please... take the fight outside where they've set up a nice mud wrestling pit.

Point out!

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30888

is about equivalent to

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30038


Which I think all the casters have (or be farming for!)


The argueable stam upgrade is not worth losing the spellhit, especially since there's so much and our casters are already trying to maintain 202.

Iono. Mebbe later when we all have gallons of hit from t6 we can afford to cut the belt for stats?

It's basically tier 6's http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30064 (read: stat laden peice of crap)

That belt (and also the Waistwrap of Infinity) were 2 of the harder calls to make.

For Anetheron's Noose, you gain 22 stamina, 380 mana, and 5 spelldamage in return for 23 spellhit (note that both belts give equal spellcrit since 23 int will make up the 6 missing spellcrit rating). The main reason I stuck with the default 100 on that belt is that I think it's clearly an upgrade over Belt of Blasting for Shadow Priests (hence the sentence in the original post about "at least for some specs, possibly not for all :D ). It's much more questionable for Warlocks and Mages, but even then it's possibly an upgrade depending on your spellhit.

For the waistwrap of infinity, I just really had no idea, there are no similar items to compare to. It really all comes down to the value of spellhaste for cloth damagecasters. Obviously some specs don't care about spellhaste at all (affliction warlocks, shadow priests), but maybe it's good for mages or destro warlocks?

Yeah just to help you eyeball it, haste is between crit and damage for usefulness for builds with double damage crit. for builds that don't have that, haste is even better (or rather, crit is even worse). but haste is maybe 80% or 90% of spelldamage's worth.

I actually need to offload hit. Arcane mages have an extremely low hit cap. I would bid on this belt in a heartbeat.

So like we were saying, it should be 300 dkp

You just want the extra stamina, admit it!

You cant knock the stamina either. I think we have seen already that squishies are going to need some more survivability in T6 instances. That first Rage Winterchill try got ugly real quick :P

My thoughts exactly.

Original post has been edited to include update #2. All gear should now be included!

Again, please point out anything that I seem to have overlooked! And keep in mind that the more items I looked at, the more I got sick of doing it so I was more likely to overlook things! :)

The relics should probably be similarly priced to the wands, since they're in the same slot. They seem pretty useful for certain specs. Prot pallies, Elem shaman, and feral druids.

The elemental relic/totem is certainly worth 100 DKP.

Choker of Serrated blades should be bargain basement dkp imo. Illidari Runeshield as well, it's a novelty stamina item. We're going to see plenty of each of them and they aren't very good. Let people take them off the DE pile and charge them 50 or 75 DKP.

I'm not sure any of our plate dpsers are interested in the belt at all. You're giving up two sockets, hit, and crit for some haste rating. Everyone has red belts, not sure if anyone would actually bid on that. I know I wouldn't. What do you 2H people think?

despite the Ilevel difference and slight healing changes the staff of immaculate recovery and the apostle of argus would have similar bid lists.... The staff of immaculate recovery benefits priests and trees greatly at a loss of a bit of +healing because of the massive amount of spirit on it. That said, it would be good to have both and do the spellsurge switch, eh? :P

There's a significant difference in +heal (43) and a minor difference in stamina (-10) with a slight difference in int (8) by "upgrading" to the apostle...

the mp5 vs spirit debate comes up.. for druids once you take out the 14mp5 on both staves you end up with 9mp5 vs 35 spirit. For a tree with all the spirit talents currently 1mp5 is aroud 3.1 spirit if you're using innervate often while in FSR almost always (from lifebloom upkeep) so at this extreme that 35 spirit would be worth around 11mp5 which is more than the 9mp5 "extra" you get from the apostle.

That gives you more "base" mana regen at a loss of a bit of int and 43 healing.

That said, the staff of immaculate recovery is like having a mini priest puppet on a stick and that's cool.

It'll have a higher demand because of it's placement in the order of things and the puppet pal perk.

^_^


Annnnyway I guess because of the ilevel the other staff can have a higher bid price but it's not that much of an upgrade unless you're considering using both =) The change was because the s3 weapons were comparable though so I guess it trumps them? I haven't looked.

If a tree/priest already has the other staff the apostle is relegated to an "well it's nice, but I'll get something else first" minigrade.

Then again I don't think we'll ever see it sharded till at least a few healers have it, either way. =)

I think 43 healing compared to 2 mp5 is worth an extra 25 dkp. Not to mention the 8 intellect is 120 mana or 132 with BoK. So until you get 5 minutes into the fight the 2 mp5 doesn't even factor in.

But point taken, never let a dirty paladin price healing gear else he'll totally disregard the awesomeness of spirit.

For priests the regen is almost equal, so then you're just looking at +43 healing and the +healing gained from spirit (about 14), so 30 total.

Also if you do get both you can put +81 healing on the Archimonde one, giving it over 110 extra healing. Then spellsurge the Bloodboil one. Then spirit the Solarian staff omg gogogogo wtb dis.

why would priests get +healing from spirit when there's no spirit on the other staff? wouldn't that lessen the difference between the two?

I mentioned getting both! Why are you doing my editing thing, huh, huh?!?!?!

oh yah, dat's backwards. So it's like 30 healing.

you started it.

*raspberry*

pffft, I didn't disregard anything! If anything, I was probably way overvaluing spirit on various healing gear because I had absolutely no idea how to compare a piece of gear with mp5 vs. a piece of gear with spirit. Hmmm, 12 spirit vs. 10 mp5 - hell if I know, must be the same!

I might want it to try it out, but I'm guessing the red belt is probably better. The problem with all of the belts and gloves with haste rating (either spellhaste or melee haste) is that they NEVER have crit and rarely have +hit. They used to be worth using anyways, since haste rating was so overpowered - but now Blizzard fixed haste rating and these pieces are just horribly itemized with no overpowered stats to redeem them. So I guess the question is whether we should just make all haste rating belts cheaper since they pretty much all suck (I already did make all gloves cheaper since they kinda suck). Is there actually a single haste rating belt on that list that people of that class will actually WANT as an upgrade, not just to mess around with haste and see if it's any good?

From what I've read in wow forum and ej forum, both of the BT/Hyjal shields are widely considered side grades or even down grades from the Magtheridon shield and ZA shield, and even somewhat the KA shield.

This is because of little to no mp5. Not sure why blizz decided to remove/reduce mp5 from t6 shields. All they really have is good stamina and +healing.

I don't think any of our pallies or shamans would take the BT/Hyjal shields over the ZA shield (which costs no dkp), unless they couldn't get the ZA shield to drop.

I'd take the T6 shield if one dropped. But I'd only use it until ZA shield dropped, at which point the I'd put +12 stam on the T6 shield and only use it for pvp.

It's not our fault each time we value spirit on an item it requires a few calculations, a spreadsheet and some headache medicine. =(

I actually looked at all the plate dps gear in depth this weekend to decide what pieces are actually upgrades. In the near future I don't see much of anything that beats my 4 x T5 and crafted breastplate. The belt is a downgrade from Red Belt. The bracers are a downgrade (or maaaaybe a side grade) to Lurker bracers. The shoulders are an upgrade, but require me to break a set bonus that's pretty awesome (5 rage every 6 seconds). Basically the only pieces I'm looking forward to are cloak, ring, and boots (which would be my biggest upgrade atm). If I can grab a mace off Kael I won't even need a weapon from T6. So... not many upgrades for me in the early BT/MH bosses.

Actually which boss drops an enhancement shaman?

also I forgot to account for living spirit which makes the mp5 to spirit equation more like 1 to 2.8... so it's like a 3.5 mp5 difference bare minimum. =)

so get both! maybe there could be like a twofor discount once you complete the set? you know... like how amazon will put two books together and there's a disco....

>.>

Tarja's trying to get me to stay enhancement.... XD

I guess they are both pretty weak upgrades, especially compared to the ZA shield. It's hard to really see how those shields can be 13 ILVLs higher.

Assuming typical healing gem sockets:

Bastion of Light is +4 stam, +7 int, and +7 healing, where you lose 5 mp5. The stats that you gain are actually the same combined itemization cost of the 5 mp5 that you lose, so I don't know where the extra itemization points went.

Felstone Bulwark is +4 stam, +27 crit rating where you lose 8 mp5. At least we can see where the extra itemization points went, since 27 crit is far more points than 8 mp5 - but since Paladin and Shaman healers value mp5 much more than crit rating, the shield is still a sidegrade at best.

Probably best to lower both shields to 100 points.