Theosophy and ET life

Some time before the events described in the topic "Theosophy and politics" took place, another text produced by Mr Aveline surprised me in a very negative way.

You can access the english version here:

http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/08...-theosophy.html

Mr. Aveline attacks the theosophists that pay attention to the UFO phenomena. To anyone who knows a little bit about ufology, it is easy to discard the channelled messages that come from the spacecraft commanders and all that mumbo-jumbo. For Mr Aveline ufology is that sort of thing. He has never heard of Allen Hynek, Lord Hill-Norton, John Mack and many more credible individuals that have spoken in the later years.

As you all know ufology is a very tricky subject. There are a lot of lunatics, that spread their crazy ideas and talk louder than the wise experts. It takes a lot of work to get some clear ideas about the UFO subject.

The zenith of Mr. Aveline's stupidity is in the sentence "Perhaps we should offer some Theosophy books to foreign spaceships so that their crews can study H.P.Blavatsky and W. Q. Judge".

To see how Mr Aveline has a very exotic stance, theosophywatch.com, recently has a new post about Venus and mentions that:

"Most of the planets, as the stars beyond our system, are inhabited,” Blavatsky writes in The Secret Doctrine — in addition, “all the conditions of life, even as we know it, are present on some at least.”

Older posts about crop circles and ET life can be traced in that website. The owner of the theosophywatch is also an ULT associate.

Mr Aveline is ruining his work with his type of posture, first by endorsing political candidates, and second by treating those who study the UFO phenomena like dumbasses.

What do you think of all this?

I am now studying the Mahatma Letters. In letter number 15 we can find this sentence:

"Thus, because they cannot with one leap over the boundary walls attain to the pinnacles of Eternity; because we cannot take a savage from the centre of Africa and make him comprehend at once the Principia of Newton or the "Sociology" of Herbert Spencer; or make an unlettered child write a new Iliad in old Achaian Greek; or an ordinary painter depict scenes in Saturn or sketch the inhabitants of Arcturus -- because of all this our very existence is denied."

The Mahatma is explaining why Science cannot accept the ideia of their existence, while at the same time suggesting that there is life in Arcturus.

The strangest of all is that the translation for portuguese of the Mahatma Letters was made by Mr. Aveline who even inserted a footnote mentioning questionable books that corroborate the idea of a ET civilization in Arcturus.

I really don't understand why he made that ridiculous article criticising theosophists who have an interest in the UFO phenomena.

I'm not familiar with Mr Aveline and his articles, but one of the wonders of theosophy is that there is no dogma forcing us all to sing from the same hymn sheet.

That said, another of the wonders is the absolute freedom to explore ideas, and if Mr Aveline is discouraging exploration of a particular field of investigation, that seems to go against the spirit of theosophy. On the other hand, some people are gullible. Perhaps we need a reminder not to believe all UFO photos and every story of alien contact.

Aldebaran,

From your 'Theosophy books to foreign spaceships' quote, it sounds like people are bringing things into Theosophy that are not Theosophy. But we have to remember that we must respect everyone's opinions. From the sounds of things, it sounds like Mr Aveline is not doing that. The main issue here is not whether UFO's exist, it is Mr Aveline's treatment of people who believe in UFO's.

I think the Mahatma's remark about Arcturus was probably just a joke, and we do not need to take it seriously.

I see no need to bring UFO discussions into Theosophy.

First of all, I mentioned letter 15 in chronological order (the original ML-8).

Harvey: I mentioned the work/statements of Allen Hynek, Lord Hill-Norton, John Mack. You can check their background. The world of UFO research is full of misinformation and crazy people. It takes time to find some serious investigation. The book UFO, written by Leslie Kean, with a foreword by John Podesta, who was a cabinet member of the Clinton Administration, is another example of serious investigation. She presented the book in some of the major news channels in the USA (with a serious tone, not as something burlesque). If you go looking for pictures and stories of UFO abductions with no criteria, you are certainly going in the wrong direction.

Nick: Sure we can have people on other planets without any other civilization has ever visited Earth. Most people would consider theosophical concepts as mere fantasies. If you describe the ideas of Mahatmas, Atlantis, Lemuria, giants, races, the planetary chain to 99% of the world population, people will call you crazy. The parallel to the UFO is clear: there is serious people that investigate the phenomenon. Aveline´s criticism is of the same type that we hear from the mouths of the critics of theosophy.

I don´t think that the Mahatma's remark is a joke, nor did the editor of the book. Arcturus is a star that is mentioned in very ancient documents (says Dane Rudhyar, a famous 20th century astrologer).

Theosophy is connected with everything. I believe that its concepts can help to understand this mystery. And I am not alone here. David Pratt in Exploringtheosophy.com has some texts about this issue and theosophywatch.com also has more than one post about the crop circle phenomenon.

Aldebaran,

We can only hope that Mr. Aveline couches his opinions in ways that are more in line with the opinions and philosophy of HPB.

Let's clarify one thing though. The work of Mr. Aveline has been invaluable and I am sure that he is one of the Theosophists throughout the world that works more for the cause. As I said, I agree with him on almost all his claims. However, the issue of freedom of opinion and discussion is sacred to me. And we can´t have new Theosophists without the ability to ask questions.

He is ill informed and ill experienced. He clearly lacks the necessary [reasoning] ability to either judge or provide an analysis of Theosophy.

Life is not unusual, it is usual. Consider bacteria, it seems to always be there no matter what turmoil the Earth is under; it hasn't even needed light and air in the past.

Life has a purpose in the Universe, all of it. Of course, life is on/in or about Saturn and the other places mentioned. It doesn't even have to be physical, or even aetheric. Recall the first Adam was not born in this current density.

Nick, I think the quote was speaking to the concept of [evolution] of consciousness.


PS: Although UFOs have no obvious place, accepting that life can be extraterrestrial is part of Theosophical literature already.

Being a paranormal phenomena, UFO can be discussed in the light of theosophy.
David Pratt has done that and he is one of most respected theosophists.

There's always a way. UFO's, or more specifically symbology that seems to represent flying vehicles, and space-wear and objects of extraterrestrial origin is quite prevelent in both ancient art per se, and clearly in that/those art forms we note as religious and spiritual.

If such is a validation of life elsewhere, it could underscore the "watcher" aspects claimed in Theosophy. It could indicate a [source] of how we've suddenly come to our Ancient Wisdom (and man's intelligence in itself is rather sudden, as is our discovery of the number zero, mathamatics, the Calendar).

Philosophies have an element of predictiveness to them, and Theosophy is clearly no exception based on Helena Petrovna Blavatsky's writings. As one form of evolving life with no necessary superiority in the Universe, it fits that we are not alone in the grand scheme of things and that our focus can include life everywhere; Theosophy should be able to account for this, and I think it does - surprisingly, I should think that there being a Theosophy, an Ancient Wisdom in itself must be obviating that we as evolving human consciousness here on Earth are part-and-parcel to something similar evolving throughout the Universe. In fact, I should think we want to accept that as a fact if we are indeed Theosophists. Accepting our commonality might lead us to being open to new and broader ways of understanding the ancient teachings.

It is a Theosophical teaching that great Chohans came from Venus to assist the development of our humanity here on earth. But I do not think they came in physical bodies, I do not think they came in spaceships, they came in (I think) their higher mental bodies. This is an important distinction that must be made in Theosophical discussions on UFO's. Has any one made this distinction in Theosophical discussions?

My remark has nothing to do with Chohans in spaceships, I am very critic of this type of claims.

However the interpretation of UFO phenomena in the light of the theosophical teachings is possible as shown by David Pratt.

http://davidpratt.info/ufo1.htm#u0

I would agree with this. In my field, the mid-sub-level of the Mental Plane is referred to as the Cosmic Super Highway, for this reason.