Length of time between reincarnations

Time and Space are handmaidens. Part and Parcel of the same thing. One exists BECAUSE of the other, and vice versa. Both are too a circumstance of a 'manifested" Universe. No Universe ... then no space or time, actually no need or place for ether in that case. These things represent the dimensions of the "Box" we find ourselves in, while "existing," as things.

I've spoken somewhat to the second question already ... space and time are relative things that DO percist for other Planes, simply relative to their density of Nature.

A Manifested Universe allows [distinction] thereby providing the means [to learn.] Therefore, it will exist in all [places] relatively, because each Plane does in itself represent distinction at some level. When we exceed our capacity for distinction, and the manifested Universe needs exist no longer, ... time ceases to have relevence all together.

Our [suggested] seven Planes are themselves just a [SET] of seven winds up an ENDLESS coil of progress; and those sets are at intervals which pretty much substantiate that a manifested Universe is a "bounded" thing with specific limits of potental. Hence, they come and go, AS NEEDED. And, NOTHING that I can perceive limits these to being sequential ... as long as they are varied and progressive in nature, they can be simultaneous, for example. And that's just a human mind's perception, the Divine will have incomprehensivle geometry at His disposal.

Time and Space, TOO, may have a strong relevence to OUR existence. As Hume may have suggested, why does it HAVE to "percist" universally, for ALL places and things, when WE HAVEN'T A CLUE as to what all those places and things are? Is that anthropromorphicizing, again? I, for one, have no trouble whatsoever of thinking we are at most a quark, permeating the electron of an atom in a grain of sand, on this beach of countless beaches on countless worlds, in countless galaxies and innumerable Universes. IT's ABOUT PLAYING ON THE BEACH, not being the center of the Universe!!! We CAN'T POSSIBLY be "all that," as they say. Why do we defend our exaultedness so, when our own understanding of Ego tells us WE are grand perception of ourselves. We are an example of what "we DO NOT know," not what we know. Our Egos serve to teach us THAT, ... SO THAT, we can get out of our own ways.

THANK GOD for Reincarnation, Karma, Nirvana and Enlightenment. And, ... all the time it takes. Who wants to spend 5-minutes at DisneyLand when you can have a free Season Pass?

WHY should we presume that the total number of human souls evolving on the Earth remains more or less constant?

I'm not so in favor of geometrizing FOR God, but rather, to use our limits and perceptions of it to envision the infinite possibilities THAT ARE AT His disposal. Even if we consider God, the Absoluteness, to essentially be us, and all things, (a forced limitation on the Divine ideation, in my mind), then the very process we use to define our limits should still give further light to there HAVING to be an unlimited-ness (limits are a product of the manifested world).

Conclusion, OUR MATH is analogous to Science. Facts that we can readily relate to. A system that validates the current extents of our mind, … BUT THAT’S ALL.

Hmmm. Not really. TIME IS PHYSICAL! Does that make it easier?

We can't see the forest for the trees. But, the forest is STILL trees. We are in a Universe, a manifested Universe, a physical manifested Universe - regardless its Planes and dimensions. It's all matter at some level, simply relative in its differentiation from denser to lighter.

As all is a perception, our Universe for spiritual evolution, CAN QUITE EASILY go much further, and be about MUCH MORE. Our perceptions are our limits. Theorize.

Time is a [distinction]. Besides the fact that distance also does not exist in the Astral as it does for us, the need to time travel doesn't exist. We simply CAN PERCEIVE beyond the frames of reference we necessarily require, that which we call time, because at that level of consciousness ... and it's 14 dimensions ... time serves no purpose, nor does it limit or cause progression. I suggest "totality" is the concept we mostly cannot grasp. If we can't grapple with that, how will we ever manage to contemplate the Devachaun, not to mention the greater number of Planes above that?

Clearly all such things we speak to are characteristics within limits. What happens when we give up our dependency on limits? Well, for one, the ego goes away. When the ego goes, we do not perceive distinction an any way that we now do - hence "the oneness." WE REMOVE OUR RESISTENCE to oneness, we don't change anything. And that same resistence is fitting into all of our thinking -- we want everthing to be relative to US, our lives and our experience of existence.

I love this part about "Each person must take full responsibility for what is and is not in his/her belief system."

So Theosphists are allowed to learn from the wisdom of others, THEN, be free-thinkers to the extents their minds and awareness allows. Sounds to me like the kind of person who WOULD REINCARNATE sooner than others. With less work to do on the other-side, there is greater impetus to get back to the real work on the Earth plane so we have some stories to tell in the Astral Lounge.

Harvey, it is not a Theosophical concept per se, but if the linear time-line is only valid for the lower quartenary, and incarnations of the reincarnating Ego can drop in at any temporal position along that time-line, then I don't see any reason why two incarnations couldn't be concurrent, or 'overlap'.
I still believe that the teachings regarding 'time spent' between incarnations were put into terms understandable by the students of the day.

Perhaps our 'next' incarnation will be in our past. If so, we have to rethink the way we understand karma..

Well, not a theosophical concept per se, true, but a concept of theosophists.

Christian,

My goodness, you have made a number of comments. First of all, what do you see happening in 2012?

Hi Nick. Back in January I was on the Coast to Coast AM Radio program doing a special on 2012 and Atlantis ... so that 3-hour special plays quite well into some of the Threads I've seen herein recently. I have just started to comment, so lots to share since there seems to be some interest in perspectives.


I had stated that via prediction I saw concern in what is termed the "Ring of Fire" area of the world; that string of over a thousand volcanoes that ring the North American/South American coasts on one side and circles around up along China. My initial concern is the cohesion of the iron/nickel core of the Earth, a mass that generates our own protective magnetic field -- leading to the placement and strength of our magnetic polarity, and indirectly to our geophysical North and South pole. There too is a connection to pressure in the Earth from these, mostly underwater volcanoes, and that is what gave me pause.


I saw that the pressure held the latent potentiality of causing a crack down the Plates upon which the topical Earth floats. This cracking has occurred before and leads to both Ice Ages, AND, the Pangaea affect whereby as the plates slide under and over then the continents will themselves rush towards each other ... thus recollecting the Earth land mass into one great continent. Basically the continents coming together, and then at some later date breaking apart and spreading is what is behind Blavatskys greater concept of what Atlantis was ... it was the WHOLE world at one time.


I indicated that I saw first significant volcanic activity up in the Aleutians. This did occur, and earlier in the year. This first indicator of trouble I noted would be severe enough that if we did not have a counter balance down in Indonesia releasing the pressure in the core, in the last quarter of 2010, then that "cracking" affect would or could lead to an entire series of cataclysmic events. FORTUNATELY, there was a significant event in Indonesia at the time indicated, in fact two volcanoes erupted with great force, and there was a tsunami.


Although there was significant death, and massive displacement of people, there was a [good] side .... the underlying message I propose for all prophesied 2012 calamities. The pressure at the core was released, and this prevents that string of volcanoes going off like firecrackers, and subsequently, the start of an ice age ... a rapid one. This also stabilizes the Earth's magnetic field for a while.


This latter in itself is paramount to what I am seeing in that science seems to wholeheartedly agree that the December 2012 Solar Flare season WILL be devastating. Our magnetic field is probably the ONLY protection we have from it, limited as it may be. Our field is the weakest it has been since the birth of Jesus. From extremely strong, basically, to extremely week. We will however lose all communications, since there no way to save the satellites, but secretly, the governments have been borrowing money like crazy from the world’s powers to replace 900 of them at a cost of many $billions. So, the government has the means to maintain continuity of itself, but we peoples can give up an imagination we have of texting, cell phones, air travel, ANY travel requiring navigation (pretty much everything, including trucking, shipping).


Insects will fall out of the sky, … they depend on the magnetic fields. Loss of insect life is loss of the bottom of the food chain. NOT GOOD. Birds, too, require magnetic fields to navigate … some moreso than others. They will not fair well. We humans too rely on that magnetic force to stabilize … and so, expect to simply fall to the ground and suffer from equilibrium effects.


There will be so much electricity in the air once the solar flares winds hit us, that power plants, and everything that uses wires for transferring electricity … basically “the grid” will explode and catch on fire. Devastating because it is a pervasive grid. This happened most recently when entire provinces in Canada were knocked out. Before that, during the last major event we in America were on telegraph. Even with the batteries off, the telegraphs kept working by themselves … taking the power out of the air … before burning. Both of these prior events were miniscule compared to what will happen in 2012, and science is loath to agree.


The solar events have the greatest likelihood of accuracy pertaining to the specific 2012 date … others are relative to it by years, decades and centuries (in other words, the process has already started and will continue after the precise prophesied date.)


Connecting the two above events there exists the potential of the two worst things that can happen. At number 2 is that the Yellowstone caldera could indeed explode. This is a massive underground volcano boarding three states in the west. Just the waves from the explosion alone could take out Las Vegas to the south … totally. In fact, anything within 200 miles surrounding would not survive in any way. This has happened before, as have ALL events we have concern about in 2012. The caldera will blanket the US in 2 and a quarter feet of iron ash. The difference this time, though, is that there is a radioactive deposit below the volcano. The warnings have already been issued in the area, and the earthquake events are already in the many thousands, and occur many times a day in the area. This caldera is ony recent in understanding because no one had any idea how immense it was in breadth. We now know it goes down hundreds of miles with molten mantel ready to give. I do not personally believe this will happen in our life times, AS LONG as we are able to release the pressure along the ring of fire, which we have. I consider those smaller volcanoes to all be good news. However, given the hundreds of underground bunkers the government is building in the US, the countless oil derricks off our coasts pumping energy oil into them and NOT to the public stores is a clue someone is taking this seriously. Along the coasts they are now running huge underwater water pipes … just saw this yesterday going on. Many very suspicious activities can be observed, especially at night, here along the coast of California. Living across the street from the ocean gives me a great vantage point …and one military base down the street, and another up the coast a half hour away. Very curious activity going on. I have been saying for years the government is very aware of the real possibilities of calamity.


Number 1, though, is if the solar activity an unprecedented force that we might conclude SHOULD strip our magnetic field can flip the Earth physically … geology shows this has happened before though you can be sure that field of science is going out of their way to say its not possible (I think I call that a conflict, ha … and gives me such concern about the information we receive about 2012 in these years leading up to it.) If the Earth flips, we PHYSICALLY have a new North and South pole. I would draw attention to all the activity now going on by every government in the world down in Antarctica. All the observations into the Sun, the myriad of solar probes, the wave detectors, the measurements of history beneath the ice in the Antarctica region, the slew of new satellite SYSTEMS working together, the renewed interest in both the moon, and mars, the information on the Internet that is being wiped. All giving cause to be concerned, and demanding that people be informed. If the Earth flips, the air will move in an opposite direction at a speed that will melt mountains. All water will rise, probably from the East to the West … making mountains the height of Mt. Shasta the safer locals … find them around the world to be ready. Time will stop briefly, then return to normal, but the Earth will be quite a mess. All of this is what is behind the H1N1 inoculations, which are now in the current flu shot. Incredible technology going into that, right down t to the coded needle and the super micro size chip in the grown needle. These play to an opportunity science has with the way our DNA works, whereby we can manipulate it via a natural “trucking” mechanism. The 1-2 punch of the H1N1 was to build an organic “motherboard” in us. This can be triggered for good (such as tracking according to Toshiba), or bad according to other manufactures via the magnetic waves that will abound in the atmosphere. Fortunately, although very possible, I do not see this scenario occurring.
I have said, and stand fast, that THIS IS NOT AN END, it is a midpoint. Mankind is MEANT to survive what I see is more precisely a change in the energetic forces in, around and on the Earth such that we can shed our dependency of [density], and can start our slow ascension process – more to the point of the subsequent Races that Theosophy expounds upon. WE ARE MEANT TO MAKE IT. But, what a ride it could be.

Well, so many things to comment, but I'll be brief. If I could write in portuguese I could write longer posts with no mistakes, with better ideas. But that's not possible, so I'll stick with the essential.

1. About psychism. You can find in the Mahatma Letters warnings about psychism. HPB, herself also wrote about that. Spiritualism was very popular at their time. The fact that the medium lost control of his/her body during the "séances" was defined as dangerous. While I agree in this point with HPB, the other thing that i criticize is the channeling to get stupid messages from supposed ascended masters. Here in Portugal, some give courses to teach people how to get channeled messages. I think this is just crazy. So, I was refering to this type of psychism. I also think that we should not dedicate our time to the development of faculties like clairvoyance, clairaudience, etc...That´s what Leadbeater did and the result is a description of the life on Mars and a treatise on occult chemistry which is completely ridiculous from a scientifical piont of view. I agree that, when you are a very enlightened person, you can rely on what you get from the astral plane. But how many of us can claim that state?

2. I think mediums can be of some use in helping the deceased, especially those who had a sudden death. I am sure you are familiar with what the egyptians called the second death. Do you know when you are talking with an astral shell?

3.The time between lives is not a central issue in theosophy. It is an interesting question, just that. The prediction of a decrease of the population in the late 21st century is not mine, but of experts in demography.

4. I am not a fan of the "2012" subject, but I guess I am on my own here. Even the majority of theosophists expect something to happen and astrologers too.
I believe that this economic crisis, will bring a very serious social crisis and that something new will come out of this. I don´t believe in more cataclisms that we already have seen. In the future we will look back and mark 2012 as the year that something new started. But changes will be slow. For me, the reelection (or not) of president Obama will be the central key in 2012.

>>> Understood, thanks, I will resort to English as well.

About psychism.

>>> Yes, you can find MANY warnings about psychism, both in varied Theosophical works, and by word of HPB herself. KNOWLEDGE in any form can be so very dangerous, hence the multiplicity of secrets, metaphors and “Keys,” to Divine “Ancient Wisdom,” to which Theosophy has belonged for eons --- even before Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky ---, not to even mention the plethora of schools of esoteric thought that have ultimately found their way into religion.


>>> [Those] that have made such inferences to the Pandora’s Box potential (NOT eventuality) of psychism speak from PRACTICAL experience; so, caveats well intended as they are, a safe way to happen upon psychism is to [evolve] through the races and Rounds until such latent potential becomes natural through its own course. Apparently, those sage teachers to which we all pay such homage know of what they speak, and we must [presume] they were themselves exceptions (by natural law) to the counsel to the student of Occultism and of Esoteric Wisdom, for their (students) own sake; that their (those so exaulted) exemption was earned in a RIGHT way, through superior application of the growth lessons of Man to the point they were naturally endowed with what might be called “gifts,” in comparison to traditional accomplishment of [humans,] (the “Thinker”.)


>>> “Knowledge” in the right hands, therefore conversely, serves to GUIDE others, as we’ve experienced from our wise ones so mentioned, and as you have yourself distinguished above. Following their Theosophical eminence, since they [clearly] meet the criteria for function beyond the base Aryan state, and since they elucidate on said criterion as a normal consequence for those further along on their Path, some currently incarnate Souls ARE [ready] (again, by natural law) to exhibit their competence so as to “Be of Service,” which I believe is the correct Theosophical statement.


>>> WE MUST CONCLUDE that said “Warnings” are of general importance, but not converse to any Laws of Theosophical-like philosophy when [condition] warrants. I, for one, am loath to demonstrate or explain the Higher means to those so conventionally situated. Knowledge, intellect, reason, [capacity] and quality of mind and heart of necessary prerequisites.

>>> I don’t understand your credential to criticize since none was given. I should think the word [channeling] would by virtue of it being an ACTUAL connection to the Mental Plane or above would be self-qualifying for discourse with Ascended Masters, should such chose audience. If it is not “actual’ channeling, then it is something else. Communication with the Mahatmas by inductees, their offices within the Society notwithstanding, should serve enough precedence that there CAN be “Purpose” from Ascended Masters; that “purpose,” necessitates one very SPECIFIC form of discourse, “Channeling.” One must TAKE ON energies of SPECIFIC Planes of Consciousness in order to achieve some medium for exchange, Theosophical FACT … and such qualifies the Medium.


>>> If ANY part of the equation is false, then the result is false. It must be a legitimate medium. They must raise their consciousness. And, those to deliver communiqué must be the source. OTHERWISE, it IS NOT psychism, it is counterfeit .


>>> Theosophy teaches “dimensions” to Higher realms of consciousness … it has gone so far as to proclaim by way of Society investigation and research 14 dimensions of experience and expression to the Astral Plane (which IS NOT the realm “Channeling” reaches to) and 256 for the Mental Plane. Such complexity of understanding naturally disqualifies all but the most capable Medium, who can draw into his/her aura sufficient forces indigenous to said Plane to enable discourse. Psychism IS REQUIRED as literal organ-produced sound, sight and effect DOES NOT EXIST at this level, and [perception] is required by sympathizing with said energies. When in rapport, understanding is capable to the limits of the mental faculty and emotional accomplishment of the Medium.


>>> Therefore, we MUST conclude, should relations occur, the messages would be FAR from “stupid.” Translation IS limited to the constitution of the Medium as already stated, but one MUST as well assume since the Ascended Master does the selection, and wisely so, their judgment is above reproach.


>>> Disqualification of a Medium is not a task of the uninitiated, that’s for sure, for the blind cannot see. However, there are ways to both authenticate and to invalidate a medium’s true prowess.

>>> If the courses are for those with natural exhibited and therefore demonstrable ability then said instruction would not only be NOT CRAZY, but NECESSARY. Recall that even Jesus, Mohammad and other Prophets and Masters HAD TO GO THROUGH THE VEILING OF THE MATERIAL WORLD in order to discover their true latent potential. They (Theosophy would teach) had to journey and find teachers qualified to develop them once they had reached an age of reason and mental development where they were better in touch with their REAL selves. This is HOW we ensure one stays on the white, light and right course. They MUST learn how to navigate beyond those who would otherwise over-shadow their experience. Too, they MUST learn how to recognize the correct state for discourse, and they must know how to dialogue to ensure safe communication. Your alleging “stupid messages” in and of itself demands instruction.


>>> Teaching those not so naturally endowed is foolhearty.


>>> Those situated in Higher energies MUST develop themselves OR ELSE they will BECOME the problem.


>>> Explaining Leadbeater’s or any Theosophists views in the terms of science would be as ridiculous as you r converse observation. You can’t define a Universe from within a box.


>>> The accomplished surely do not rely solely on the Astral Plane … that is a limited Plane of Emotion. Higher Planes yield higher results.


>>> Few can rely on a fully defined psychic constitution, on in your words, “can claim that state.” But, what of this? For those who CAN, the education you would eschew is PRECISELY what would prevent the inadvertent “stupid messages” you would caution about.

>>> To be honest, mediumship connections to the SUDDEN DEATH deceased should pointedly be avoided. There are exceptions. A sudden death is not necessarily functioning in an Astral body. Too, [fear] is a component to evaluate when innitiating contact ... those of sudden death are most likely to have fear. It can be very counter productive to make connections before those departed have truely come to the realization and acceptance of their state.

>>> I am familiar with everything in this field. Ha, how's that for arrogance? The more I know, the more I realize what I don't know ... so, I've become a perpetual student. After 4 decades of practical experience though, lecturing, writing, and more reading and investigation than one would care to know for pain of headache, I could probably play my hand at psychic poker well.

>>> Helping the deceased SHOULD be something undertaken BEFORE death. Such is the penultimate value of Theosophy, whether that is the intent or not. The benefit translates across lifetimes, not just the moment of passing.

>>> Further, often times helping the deceased is REALLY helping the living. One has to understand that great big variable HELP. How someone managed to accomplish sudden death is also a factor. All of these things underlie many of the cautions of Theosophy in re psychism.

>>> I see. Have you ever put together a jig-saw puzzle? Which peace did you start with? The difficulty I have observed with Theosopy is where to start ... so many threads wound about so many balls of yarn ... with the eventual promise that TOGETHER they make something very beautiful. However, that is a tedious, ardious undertaking that demands considerable disciple. That preable being what it is, I would say HUMANS have [interests], and as the one at the moment is satisfied fully, it provides an impuse to continue the undertaking on yet another facet of interest.

>>> Like the Theosophical suggestion of [things] in existence in a manifested Universe, ALL ARE QUINTESSENTIAL. Pseudo-doctrines aside, any way, any place, any time our theosophical concepts can find purchase in the minds of man is to assuradly transform that one, in time.

>>> Just that??? ha. You've baiting me. As stated, no one thing is more important, or less ... ultimately, maybe over lifetimes, ALL OF THE PUZZLE must be put together. We evolve in a differentiated way from one another. What I actaully LOVE about theosophy is there IS NOT PRESCRIBED WAY to approach it. It is all relative to the student. I find life creates the specific needs, Theosophy the answer. "Just That" could be a mainspring in someones clock of consciousness that is needed at the moment for time to ensue.

>>> Yes, and interesting question. The fact that the answers are so broad and deep suggests "WE DON'T KNOW," therefore, we are searching. One question explored can become anothers published book.

>>> Sad. This could be the first and only time any one currently physical gets demonstrable proof of esotericism. There WAS a time before a formalized Theosophy and the defined Ancient Wisdom. There was a time we were LEARNING, and that learning went into these things. 2012 speaks to something we experience so very rarely, quite literally ONCE in the existence of human consciousness, that it should be given the respect as a focal point on the changes of Races, and what occurs. This one is the midpoint of ALL Rounds, too. It has to be the biggest wakeup call from the Absoluteness that MAN can ever experience ... and where ALL can be active participants (whether by choice or not.) It WILL be the proof we need for Theosphy to go up against Science and to restore spiritual philosophy to its rightful position of authority. In my opinion.

>>> LOL, the cataclisms are predicted and foretold, even as we speak. I have done this myself. They are as much a reality as your economic crises ... moreso. Cataclisms are not suddenly going to stop. They will authenticate our concepts of Races and Rounds, the Atlanteans and past beings, our connection to the cosmos, and even will exemplify our advance understanding of Planes of Existence. Economic Crisis <wink> that's a man-made thing. One way to solve a problem is to have a bigger one ... there, I just solved your crises.

>>> 2012 isn't just about something new, it validates evolution. As a theosophist you will be called upon to "be of Service," something YOU must of demanded. If you're here you must have wanted to do "this thing." You will get to help mankind accomplish something relatively [overnight] compared to countless eons getting to this point where we were'nt sure where we were going. If you're going to take the class, you owe it to yourself to also take the test.

>>> One day, some day, some where it will be YOU who is that Ascended Master we talked about earlier. Someone is going to ask, "How did you get there?" The answer should NOT be that "I was trying to solve the financial crisis." At least, I don't think so.

>>> Obama, a central key??? Presidents and world leaders are "pawns" to those who actually run the world. [THEIR] end is very much rooted in 2012, and Obama was simply the victor between two PRESELECTED options. There can be no preeminent importance to an office or its occupant ... that is simply a quality of our immediate [material] existence at some place for some people. In my opinion, of course ... not to deter into a political debate, or such.

Christian,

You said one thing that jumped out at me.

"Helping the deceased SHOULD be something undertaken BEFORE death."

--> The problem, of course, is that most people who are about to die will not listen to what we theosophists have to tell them. (And the more 'religious'; they are, the less they will listen.) All we can do is try to raise the general level of spirituality and knowledge of humanity as a whole. (And hope that perhaps one person here or there will become interested in the Ancient Wisdom that Theosophy teaches.)

Nick,

When we tell persons things that will help them they seldom acknowledge it, appreciate it at the moment. But they WILL draw upon it once their life takes them down that path again and there is no one. Parents do this. When a person passes, and they are struggling for answers, they WILL remember [what someone once told them.] So, it is primarily important that they HEAR you, and not necessarily understand in the moment. One may have to say many things in small doses over great periods of time ... and hopefully some ONE thing gets in, but one thing is all that HAS to get in.

It is actually happening in many ways. Our voices, those of many, find their way into the simplest thing, like a Disney television show, or the name on a new burrito. Ultimately, SOMETHING gets in, as I say.

The [wisdom] comes at us from many places and different but frequent times. If only a little gets in, then that is simply the capacity of another; that part is not our problem, but the fact that we TRIED is a benefit that plays out many times in many ways for us, here and hereafter.

Often people rebel. They create websites, for example, that seem so anti-spiritual. Or, they condemn us and those in similar fields. STILL, they are getting something from it (because they get in touch with their anger, and have to express it in words, which requires thinking), and WE cannot really be hurt, anyway ... other than perhaps our ego.

That "TRYING" part, of trying to help, however, is no so very evident ... we just presume we will not be heard, and therefore, make no difference. We MUST try, however, or we are complicit. If we have a capacity, we must try. We DO NOT, however, have to succeed ... existence doesn't quite work that way. We need to create change, motion, activity [life] and even if it were the minutest of steps (and if someone resists you, gets angry, fights, complains, or does anything counter btw they ARE indicating they are having a reaction to wisdom) he whom we would help will complete their gate, and be a bit farther along.

The converse has happened to ALL of us over and over again throughout our lifetimes ... we are not ourselves omnipotent. We get help, we give help. Or, we try, same difference.

We don't COMMUNICATE so much as we make ripples in a pond. This is just the same as with energy, ... but movement DOES lead to progress. These rippled problems eventually lead to, and find a solution. We don't have to solve everyone's problems, spiritual or otherwise, we just have an obligation to create a few ripples ... the problem will solve itself in time.



It may be that a person is SHUT OFF, which is why they will not be reached. Drugs, alcohol, for example. They are refusing help if they escape deliberately. We've all watched enough tear jerkers to know something EMOTIONAL will happen to help us stop and take notice at SOME point, to some THING. Just the tiniest bit of progress is still progress ... this is not a race. We want to be the one's who gave them the philisophical life preserver for the time they are actaully drowning and reaching for one.


Another way I work personally is NOT to tell them anything. I acknowledge their issues, their pain and their frustration. In so doing there is receptiveness. As you demonstrate compassion than other person will be more free to share … they will share THEIR suffering and positions, ha. This is Okay, because with a simple set of questions they too will have to think, which leads to seeking answers. For example, “What does it mean?”, “Why are you doing that, is it you or your mother/father being expressed in your life?”, “Is this because you can’t see any alternatives in life?”, “Is this your only option?”, “Is the need for money just going to come up again if you get past this phase?” , “Is this a pattern in your family?”, “Why doesn’t your brother help?”, “Was your father there for you at that difficult time in your life you mentioned? (viewpoints of abandonment is a big source of problems). There are thousands of things to say to anyone’s upset in life, and if we get them to THINK about that in a way they don’t feel confronted, it is THEY who will begin bringing themselves around. They will demonstrate that change by asking about you, or your opinions. (This latter is not necessary in this case, since the person is already on a path of change, but it is validating.)


If it is religion specifically that is the block to new insight, carefully must it be approached as a question. “Do you think people see Jesus?” “What do you think will happen to us when we die?” “Isn’t it amazing that it took 15 billion years to create this Universe, and it all comes down to our 70 – 80 years?” “If we so suddenly developed this incredible mind that has made us the Masters of the Universe, what would be different in another few million years?” “If we were just some biological accident that chemically evolved to our physical state of intelligent man, how is it that we developed such a powerful emotion that we call love?” “Wouldn’t it be great if when we passed we actually DID find our mothers or fathers who passed when we were but a child?” “It seems we are so different than civilization was 6, 10, 40000 years ago, what made us want to change, to keep changing?” “If we just live and die, aren’t we pretty much the same as a carrot?” “It seems in the here and now, there are those who are superior to others. We can see it in all animals and plants too? Is there something better than what we are now?” “If you could be anything in the world, what would that be … and why aren’t you?” “Ever done anything you regret … wonder if there is a way to correct our mistakes so we don’t have to suffer forever?” “In the last 6,000 years of acknowledged written-word history, there sure have been a lot of religions. What makes ours so special?” “If we are going to just live, and die … why do we need a Hell? We are already dead and are not going to get better, so what is the point of the eternal punishment?” “If you could change one thing about religion, what would it be … and why?” “Do you think all people are created equal? How” “If there is a Heaven and Hell, does that mean our lives are pretty important? Will we then cease to be meaningful, then, once we die?”

Another approach is to ask [their] perspective on any slightly spiritually related issued. Their THINKING is what we would really want, because man is a problem solver. When they SEE the problem in thier thoughts, they will seek an answer. As we get older and more serious, we actaully want something substantial. If a person is getting older, and DOES NOT seek answers, then it is THEY who are in the greatest danger of [fear] on the otherside, for they are the least prepared to deal with a VERY MAJOR UNKNOWN. Generally, people are designed to be looking for meaning ... so, if we probe about this or that and ask "what does it mean?" a conversation will ensure. Ego's make us TRY and answer, and when we find we cannot, then we begin to acknowledge a problem and a need.

Having THE solution won't always be the right approach. Better, perhaps, to say "What worked for me, is ...."

I ask people all the time, "Are you afraid of dying?" I do it BECAUSE I can already see it as a problem in them, even though they don't." Their answer isn't important, the lingering question if they don't know the wisdom is success enough ... one step. I'm a provocative person too, with someone who isn't going to be open I might ask, "Which religion is better?" If they give a choice, then that's great because we can then ask WHY?" If they say, none, or it doesn't matter, then, respond "Is that something YOU KNOW, or something you've experienced." They cannot say THEY KNOW, so it is an opening.

Lastly, PREACH TO THE CHOIR. We evolve at different rates ... help those who are looking for [something.] You too have too little time, so put your efforts where they can be appreciated. When you succeed in helping ONE person, they will help another ... you get points for that just as if this was a pyramid scheme. We are all just catalysts, we are not saviors. We are potential action ... so JUST act, ... what the act is, is not so important ... spirituality is not measurable. Our goal can never be to see a result, but rather, to see change.

In my humble opinion.