High Levels of Clairvoyance, Who has it? Anyone?

As much as I am fascinated by and believe a lot of what I have learned in my theosophical reading, there are times when I am still a skeptic. One of the most interesting books I've seen is "Occult Chemistry". To possess such an amazing degree of clairvoyant sight that Leadbeater and Besant had, to be able to not only have microscopic vision and beyond, but to be able to manipulate matter at that level, etc. It both amazes and fascinates me....and also makes a part of me wonder why there has not been more investigations of these types, and therefore if the clairvoyant abilities described really existed quite the way they were described.

Are there any people still alive in the modern world who have abilities to this degree, or close? If so, can someone direct me to information about them? If not, why do you think there wouldn't be anyone else able to do this?

Does anyone on this forum possess abilities to anywhere near this degree?

I've read all about the controversy concerning use and purposeful development of "psychic" abilities, and I don't know quite where I stand, but I think there is certainly no harm in being curious and fascinated by the topic. That seems to be 90% of what most theosophical texts are about - information acquired by clairvoyant means. I think a person needs to be responsible with these abilities, just like they need to be responsible owning a gun, or a car, or a cooking knife even, or talking to people about their thoughts and feelings, walking down the street, etc. Terrible things can happen in all sorts of situations besides psychic ones.

Anyway, as there is already a long post concerning the ethics of using and developing these abilities, I would like to start a post which isn't about the ethical aspect. What abilities do you have? To what degree? Experiences? How do you think they work? What affects them? And so on...

Sorry, I'm not psychic.

That's ok, Nick. And as much as I appreciate your responses to my posts, have I for some reason run off everyone else? Noone else seems to ever respond to my posts.

I'd love to hear from anyone regarding my questions about clairvoyance.

Or does anyone know of anyone current who talks about having a high degree of clairvoyance similar to the older writers? Who are some of the most prominent modern Theosophists?

ZPF,

Unfortunately, Theosophy is not a popular philosophy, and we do not have many active members. But rest assured, there are people out there reading your posts, and once in a while people will jump in and make comments.

HPB said Theosophy would not be popular, and she was right.

I just want to say that the book "Occult Chemistry" has no credit from a scientific point of view. In wikipedia you can find some links with that analysis. And it´s not a matter of science vs theosophy...

Even among those who follow the Besant/Leadbeater tradition "Occult chemistry" is not a very popular book. However there are even worse examples of Leadbeater's clairvoyance problems. The description of life on planet Mars which can be found in latter editions of the book "Inner Life" is quite ridiculous.

I know these aren´t nice things to say and some don't like to hear them. A good evaluation about Leadbeater's psychic abilities can be found in Gregory Tillett's (a scholar) biography on CWL, which is available online.

In another thread I've read something about HPB, Masonry and rituals. As every theosophist knows she was against ritualism and the fact that she was given the highest masonic degree (Rites of Memphis-Mizraim) in recognition of her work doesn't mean she advocated the masonic practices. She was never a regular mason and she even criticised the masonic practices in the West.

However it is a fact that Leadbeater together with Wegdewood created the Liberal Catholic Church and also invented new rituals (like the famous theosophical Egiptian rite). Because of these discrepancies many scholars that study theosophy differentiate the HPB period from the subsequent Besant/Leadbeater period (which is tagged as neo-theosophy).

I am a clairvoyant medium, and would state simply that clairvoyance of a high nature does provde the means of repeatable, demonstrable, explainable validation of the existence and nature of many of the things that Theosophy would speak to.

There is an older book, Rosecrucian Theosophy, which will state that clairvoyance IS THE ONLY means available to provide such repeatable demonstration of the Universal nature of things expressed on (theosophies).

You should know that clairvoyance is not just the means for seeing beings and the continuity of life on the "other-side," that Theosophy would consider the Astral Plane. It is a faculty that can be used to see inside the body, something I do weekly and often with medical professionals to ascertain the condition of medical conditions. It can be used to see in the past, as well as the future ... especially if one has seership abilities. Clear tasting, and clear smelling are actually aspects of clairvoyance, ... so it is a broad ability going far beyond clairsentience and clairaudience.

Because I have what is termed claircognizance, I have been able to track down the answers to many things as I have a particularly useful means of guidance, yet there will always be much more to know than we can answer.

Psychism may be an acceptable broad term for natural, yet obscure abilities innate in all of us that function by virtue of the degree of energy we draw through chakras into our Aura, "psychic" per se serves better to refer to a specific ability to blindly "sense."

You are also possibly suggesting telekinesis, which stands apart as an ability, as will the far-reaching clairvoyance.

Mediumship has a great many variations, and was much better defined back in the 1800's than it would be today ... this, perhaps above all, is an ability that creates the most angst amongst Theosophists, in my mind. I actually think most people PREFER for the existence and proof of consciousness in other forms to remain occult, if that answers your earlier question.

It is possible to see Nature Spirits (nature people) rather easily ... something I've written a number of books on, and for which I have delivered hundreds of workshops. And, although this was an initial aim of H.P.B. in establishing the Theosophical Society through the resources of Mr. Phelps, it was not realized at that earlier stage. Frankly, it DOES NOT require clairvoyance to see nature people, as they are simply ætheric ... so, a more simple ætheric vision is suitable. H.P.B. would have realize this since she demonstrated so very much ætheric realm communication ... and she did feel teaching this simpler ability, one which anyone can exercise if they will simply stop their ego-based nature for a moment to experience outside of the box, would help people to then see angelic life, and then astral existence (which is NOT all human.) Unfortunately, seeing above this level will usually require a mediumistic ability UNLESS there is deliberate descent from consciousness of another level (and as with us, this is not always easy.)

I will give you a very fast answer to your question group which should shorten your journey. First, we MUST use our eyes differently and we can as man actually has two kinds of natural vision (we simply have stopped using an earlier form because we feel safe sleeping with our eyes closed now, ... we did NOT in the past.) Secondly, as an Aryan race, WE ARE very ego-based, which provides inordinate focus ... this focus serves a FAST direction in life where we rationalize and learn within a tight channel, but it in essence blocks other innate abilities. Learning to STOP THINKING, can be difficult for most, almost certainly for Theosophists. Eventually, however, there is control, harmony and balance and one can manage perception of existence at all three of the lower Planes, and of course, their subplanes. (Subplanes, by the way, are quite unique sub-pockets, and they quite distinctly appear and function DIFFERENTLY than the greater plane they occupy ... this might fly in the face of the gradient nature of planes taught in Theosophy.

I could add one thought. The Ego is subject to FEAR. Extrapolate and you will realize the [blocks] that people experience and speak to are simply "fear of the unknown." I try to teach around this natural protective mechanism with simple practical exercises that quite technically [trick] the sub-conscious mind, which is a programmable thing. We "unprogram" the same way we program ... but our programming has been done all through our lives, and especially when we were children and did not have our synaptic network developed yet in the brain. So, some repetition is necessary to [convince] the sub-conscious mind. There are SAFE ways to do this, intended to keep the subject in [control]. Control is a necessary factor as lack of it is what theosophists speak to in their complaint of the psychism. Yet, control is actually a 100% effective and teachable technique that works with the nature of the human mind, SO, it actually serves a beneficial purpose of removing fear in people, AND, putting them in control.

Thank God for that ... it wouldn't be very occult, would it?

Science works in a backwords direction, it adds explaination [in physical world experience only] of physical world experience. It is inherently rediculous to use science as any basis to define much more than the chair we set are arse on. I have a very long-term expert status background in science, and thank my Divinely guded existence that I can STILL rationalize outside of the physical world box, and therefore SEE.

Is Occult Chemstry or anything it speaks to right for everyone, ... well, quite obviously not as science defines just as well the limiting and throttling affects of the sub-conscious mind on our perceptions. If we are all good little sub-routines, and stay within the boundaries of our programs, we will be quite happy having limited, orderly, consistent, limits. However, if in leaps and bounds man manages to rationalize things beyond its science, there is no worry ... science simply creates new sciences and extensions of itself to substantiate its newer awareness. Could you imagine of spirituality and the tenets of Theosophy actually worked this way ... it would be useless.

It's been a long time since I read Occult Chemistry, and to now argue for the otherside, I will state that great effort went into explaining the occult in form-based science, and this was probably a mistake because the variable nature of clairvoyance which is simply a relativity to the level of our psychic nature is not factored in. THUS, I think the conclusions will lack the [repeatability] we look for both scientifically, and theosophically. I do applaude the authors vision, however, in realizing the rigid function of the brains of their compatriates. It was a good effort for its time.

Hi. Thank you all very much for your thorough responses. I can normally respond quickly, and I do have lots of questions/comments about your responses, but it's been an off day for me and my mental focus is a bit lacking right now, so I'll have to respond in more depth another day. Just wanted to say thanks for all your responses though and I look forward to talking more about this topic.

Ok, as I had some long responses, this is going to be a long reply. Bear with me...

I'd like to start by explaining a couple of my main reasons for interest in this topic(besides just plain extreme fascination). I practice and study various forms of "energy healing". I've studied and practiced others, but my main path is along the lines of Barbara Brennan and I'm currently going to a school based mostly on her methods. We learn what she calls "high sense perception", which is just her word for clairvoyance/clairaudience/clairsentience/etc.

So I'm interested in learning the ideas and theories of different occult/esoteric/new age/etc systems so that I can understand the process better, see what is possible, and enhance my "higher" faculties so I can be a more effective healer.

I am also very scientific-minded, and I find it both confusing and interesting that within the various healing and esoteric systems of the world, there is so much confusion about energetic anatomy, cosmology, etc. Being a healer, energetic anatomy interests me the most, yet there are so many differences between systems that seemingly contradict each other; i.e. chakras are in one place and do this, no they are over here and do that. And it's the same with meridians, nadis, auric bodies, etc.

Many people, including teachers of mine, and authors I respect, state that this is because people are not seeing an objective, verifiable thing, but rather their brains are interpreting them symbolically and that accounts for the difference; or they provide some other ambiguous explanation.

I do believe in some cases information may be received symbolically(especially when receiving from the "higher" planes, but I think that the energetic anatomy of humans and the energetic structure of the universe is much more objective, consistent, and verifiable than many people believe. I believe the differences are due to - incomplete systems of knowledge; "unclear" perceptions as discusses in some of the theosophical literature I've read; OR the fact that different people(of different cultures ar regions, different levels of development, and so on) have different energetic anatomies.

Therefore, one of my goals in life(whether I accomplish it or not is another story) is to bridge some of the gaps between these different systems, and an essential part of that would be a better understanding of the "higher senses".

Aldebaran - I wasn't claiming that Occult Chemistry was accepted as valid by modern science, but I just find the ideas in it very fascinating. I'm not sure if I believe they are accurate myself, but I find the possibility exciting. And by the way, if I remember correctly, William Tiller has done some work in this area trying to find more solid evidence of their validity, with some success. I may be wrong though.

Also, do you know why Occult Chemistry is not popular among Neo-Theosophists as you said?

I'm not sure what you meant by "it's not a matter of science vs. theosophy."

When you mention Leadbeater's clairvoyance problems and the ridiculous description of life on Mars - are these just your own opinions or are they based on some investigation? I read some of Tillett's thesis, but haven't had time to read it all. It seemed to generally have a positive slant of Leadbeater and his abilities though. And don't worry if what you say is "nice" or not. I like having these discussions and just want to know where you're coming from. Part of my interest is to figure out what I really believe is real in all this.

I'm aware of the split between the HPB crowd and the Besant/Leadbeater crowd. I have to admit I have read any of HPB's work yet as the AB/CWL work is much easier to read at first. Maybe I'll form a better understanding when I get to some of HPB's work.


ChristianMyst - I'll continue with my response to you in the next post. This is getting a little long.

Ok, continued from the last post...

ChristianMyst -

It's great to hear directly from someone who has these abilities. I have read many accounts of people with various types of "higher sense" abilities, but it's not often I get to talk to someone directly. Some of the teachers at my school do have some similar abilities, but I don't really get much chance to sit and discuss the details of their skills.

Yes, I am aware that there are many forms of clairvoyance. They all interest me, but my current interest is more in the visual aspects. As to your mention of seeing inside the body, Barbara Brennan discusses this ability to both see inside the body and to magnify her vision to see down to the cellular or even molecular level. Other than you, she is the only person I've ever heard talk of this type of clairvoyance, and with my healing practice, it's a skill that would be very useful if I could develop it.

Can I ask how you came into your abilities? Were you born with some already manifesting themselves? Did they come to you as a sort of "side effect" of other forms of personal/spiritual development? Or did you actively pursue the abilities? And if so, how? I realize this may be a lengthy answer, and although I'd love to hear as much as you are willing to share, I understand if you just prefer to give a general synopsis.

Also, you mentioned you have a particularly useful form of guidance? Can I ask what this is?

As to the different abilities you mention(psychic, mediumship, telekinesis, clairaudience), I am fascinated and interested in all of them, but most interested in the visual abilities(seeing into the body, seeing microscopically, viewing auras and chakras, seeing nature spirits or other etheric energies or entities). All of these I just mentioned are, I believe within the physical/etheric realm. I am also interested in "seeing" on higher realms, but should probably start, both in study and practice, on this lower level.

You mention HPB talking about teaching this ability of etheric vision - does she give specifics? Can you direct me to where in here writings? I have studied and tried many methods for a couple of years with no luck so far, although I have quite a few problems with my normal physical vision already so I've wondered if that isn't part of that issue.

You mention that seeing the higher levels requires a mediumistic ability. This doesn't make sense according to my understanding of the word mediumistic. Can you elaborate?

It's really interesting what you say about how we used to sleep with our eyes open, and therefore had etheric vision at this same time. I assume that's what you meant anyway. That's interesting because from what I have read, etheric vision is a function of the rod cells in the eyes, which is why a lot of "etheric vision exercises" have you do either peripheral vision exercises(where most of the rods are) or sit in the dark for long periods(the rods are used for night vision). So I would imagine if people slept with their eyes open, their rods would be exceptionally more developed than they are today. Where did you learn this by the way? About people sleeping with their eyes open? I have never heard that before in a factual context.

When you speak of the ego getting in the way, I assume you mean only with the higher levels? My understanding is that etheric vision, at least the lower etheric vision, was purely a physical process involving the rod cells that wouldn't have anything to do with the ego or an open or closed mind.

As to your last post, I disagree somewhat(if I'm understanding your correctly). Although it's more speculation than having any real solid basis, I think although many of the truths of the universe will never be provable my modern science, I think I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future we have technological devices for indisputable detection and study, and possibly even manipulation of etheric, and possibly astral and/or mental matter.

ZeroPointField

Read volume 1 of "Old Diary Leaves."

ZeroPointForce

Your reference to "physical process" and to "rod cells" I am going to presume to mean the rod shaped structures along the outer part of the eye, (vs the conical structures towards the center). And, in that case, YES the vision from the outer ring of the eye is physical ... it detects both light and motion ... and as such, is part of the process of not just etheric vision (s/b ætheric vision), but Astral (clairvoyant) and Mental plane vision. That we use some of our physical mechanisms, however, does not complete the process ... there is still a requirement for the subject person to have appreciable amounts of ætheric, astral or mental-plane energy around their body, or within the aura, complimentary to the dimension to be reached.

Because the ætheric body IS OF the physical plane, only above the four levels (theosophically this would refer to 4 sub-planes) humans use prevelently, IT IS therefore a visible energy to anyone in the physical plane (although this DOES NOT mean that any one in the physical can see ætherically, ... it only speaks to the energy perception being expressed to some degree, and not latent, in humans.

Nothing trumps the visions we have spoken to, or psychism in general, than does the ego/mind/sub-conscious mind faculties and bodies. These ARE the programming of we the human computers.

To conclude, you must have sufficient energies of planes one would connect with. Your eyes are useful for giving proof we are perceiving energy, but they are actually unnecessary to one proficiently clairvoyant. Our mental faculties are programmed and therefore limit us, and the most significant factor of that programming is fear. Be very aware, however, we have these mental facilities and conditions for a reason ... they are what is blocking situations that would [allow] us to be fearful. This is essential to understand because psychism IS NOT, in my opinion, something that should be developed in anyone who does not already show signs of, and symptoms of psychism. We train these initiates to basically "save them" from an otherwise dreadful existence, and so they are not a danger to themselves, and most often so they are not a danger to others. Thus, some MUST be enlightened so the disadvantage of their psychism in a world that does not explain it can be flipped from a negative to a positive (consider the duality of the Universe.) We can take one who is most typically afflicted by psychism (again, since the bodies of wisdom in this world do not acknowledge it and explain it, it becomes difficult, different up to outright dangerous) and turn that coin over, so they are in [control] and therefore, they become a benefit to mankind, and not a detriment.


To be more specific to your question, the ego CAN ALWAYS get in the way, regardless the easier expression of ætheric sensitivity. Ego can even get in the way of having this conversation. And, the process of ætheric vision is NOT purely physical - you DO NOT need eyes for this ability, we just tend to demonstrate it to sighted people. Regardless, the amount of ætheric energy that forms the ætheric body will absolutely affect this ability. A masseuse would be a great positive example, but an affirmed elderly person might be a worse-case example (unless they are nearing death.)

ZeroPointField

If it serves, ZPF, I sought out Theosophy and very many other esoteric and spiritual wisdoms to help me find the answers to my psychic nature. In that process, I found that "YES, INDEED ... much of what C.W.Leadbeater was describing was correct. I would take difference, however, to he and Besant's interpretation of colors ... but then they have not spent decades counseling people based on these attributes. Aspects of the Secret Doctrine, the Mahatma Letters, even ISIS I found could be easily substantiated with clairvoyance. I found some disagreement with Occult Chemistry and some specifics on energy attributes and movement, ... but the base knowledge available to the [MIND] back then, would be limited by today's means. Had there been more esoteric learning in the East I think the pioneers would have been more willing to enter an imaginative mental state, and no so logical a one. Imagination is the means to spirituality, or so says the Dhali Lama. Teaching these fields we must remove the limitations of our traditional learning, SO THAT we can actually experience things that are new. The typical folk limit themselves for precisely that reason, they DON'T allow themselves to experience anything new ... and so, they are NOT as spiritual as they can be if I can refer back to the Dhali Lama's response to an inquirer.


Rudolph Steiner is one you should follow/read in answer to this particular question you ask.

Clairvoyance IS NOT the only way to achieve Higher states of awareness, and modern Theosphists would even eschew psychism for high meditative states. Clairvoyance, however since it is closer to our state of consciousness, does afford us an easier ability to experience and understand consciousness in the Astral Plane, and the lower Mental Plane. It is also more repeatable, and more easy to rationalize. It is better used ultimately to experience Higher levels than the Astral Plane through Mental Mediumship and [Inspiration] ... which more accurately captures the Mental Plane, and above. However, one who is already clairvoyant might have a far easier time traversing higher. On the down side, many if not most drawn to psychism and clairvoyance in particular can become TOO TOO TOO focused on the fantastical, and the aetheric realms and the Astral Plane. If one understands the ætheric realms of Nature Spirits (Nature People) and has an experience of the Astral Plane, then they will also innately begin understanding the underpinnings of "magic." Consider though, that humans are now "Aryans," that is "the Thinkers," and our use and development through the mind and ego are obviously necessary. Putting this all together the best one can, depending upon their energetic natures, is the best answer in my opinion. We all have proclivities ... THOSE, whatever they are, are likely what we need to master to achieve the most from our existence.

Psychism, Clairvoyance and Mediumship ... and quite frankly magic too ... will never be effectively taught (in my opinion) unless the wisdom and reality behind them is acknowledged by the powers-to-be in this world (especially religion where these things are common place, but in the upper echelons of the church) and the natural order of things can be explained to include them. It has to be common knowledge that life exists in many forms, in many dimensions, in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE, whether on the Earth, or Alpha Centauri. The concept of dimensions must as well be explained since the 14 dimensions of the Astral Plane and the 256 of the Mental Plane are almost imperceptible to the 3 dimensional state of humans here in the Physical Plane.

ZeroPointField

Great, you mean there is someone else who can do this? Ha. The symbology of the snake with ISIS is that the penal gland organ moves back and forth, in and out. This allows clairvoyance to be tuned. We can see the past and the future. We can see INSIDE the body, as well as into space.

I, indeed, look into the blood and the organs of the body of dozens of subjects every week to determine infections, viruses, anti-bodies, diseases ... and whether things such as cancer is spreading, or if it even exists. I often have to track down a persons symptoms to their causes, and this is done in an organized way by looking into the body.


This is a pretty rare gift, ZPF, so you are not going to find a lot of proficiency with it in the world. There are many reasons why this ability won't work for people.