Title: Karma vs. Free Will
stlmama - January 21, 2010 06:07 AM (GMT)
I understand the concepts of karma and free will, and fully support both as true. But I have a hard time with the concept of karma involving actions that others do out of free will. Am I to believe that if a person, say, gets mugged, they did so due to karma or is it rather just free will?
Saying that karma uses free-will actions lends support to the theory of predestination, which I do not support.
Nick the Pilot - January 21, 2010 07:09 AM (GMT)
I would say that, if a person got mugged, it was probably because they were scheduled to burn off some karma. But it could also be that their "spirit guides" were sending them some kind of warning.
Regarding the free will aspect, it has been said that we are free to choose what we will do. I do not see it as predestinantion per se. But psychics and our "spirit guides" know what we will choose to do! It is one of those things that I think our mundane minds cannot understand. (Do you?)
Jim B - January 21, 2010 02:37 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Nick the Pilot @ Jan 21 2010, 07:09 AM)|
| we are free to choose what we will do. |
I would say that we have control over our re-actions.
Nick the Pilot - January 22, 2010 05:46 AM (GMT)
"...we have control over our re-actions."
--> Nice way of putting it.
stlmama - January 23, 2010 06:50 AM (GMT)
Do I understand how spirit guides and psychics would know what we will do before we do it? Not really. If so, I just don't understand how free will works. It's gotta be about more than just reactions.
Yes, I know that often we can't control situations and can control only our reactions to them. But other times, we CAN make a difference by choosing to act. Reacting to a situation is often much easier to do than leaping to action where you see fit.
Are you saying that our actions don't count for anything, that they are basically planned events? Then what are we? Merely puppets with the capacity to respond? And do our actions not get included in the system of karma if they are planned events? I guess if so, we shouldn't put criminals in jail, eh? This goes to the heart of my quandary with karma vs. free will.
Nick the Pilot - January 23, 2010 02:56 PM (GMT)
All I can say is what i said before -- we are free to choose our own path, but somehow our "sprit guides" know what we will choose. After that, I think it is case of our finite minds trying to understand the infinite, which cannot be done.
"...do our actions not get included in the system of karma if they are planned events?"
--> They get included. Some are "planned" but others are not. We will suffer any karma we create from doing bad things. We are free to do anything we wish, within the limits of our karma.
Nicholas - January 23, 2010 04:50 PM (GMT)
Study this old thread (& the links) and see if it helps you understand:http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showt...=0#entry4579232
Lanoo_Harvey - January 26, 2010 04:47 PM (GMT)
|we are free to choose our own path, but somehow our "sprit guides" know what we will choose.|
Nick, our spirit guides will know that our past karma predisposes us to behave in a particular way, and they might know how we should act and react, but as we have free will they can't know for sure what we will do. I wonder if a spirit guide ever says:"I didn't see that coming!"
Nick the Pilot - January 27, 2010 09:40 AM (GMT)
" I wonder if a spirit guide ever says:"I didn't see that coming!"
--> I guess we won't find out until after we die. But it sure is fun to speculate!
jahina - September 22, 2010 11:50 AM (GMT)
Nick the Pilot - September 22, 2010 01:56 PM (GMT)
A spirit guide is someone who has passed on to the afterlife world, but is still here with us on the astral or mental plane, giving us guidance.
jahina - September 22, 2010 02:19 PM (GMT)
Is being a spirit guide a punishment?
Lanoo_Harvey - September 23, 2010 10:15 AM (GMT)
Jahina, we probably all have our own ideas of spirit guides. I think that compassion lies within the essence of Spirit. Our animal nature makes us selfish and greedy for survival; our spiritual nature makes us want to help others. When we leave our physical bodies we also leave behind the greed and selfishness, we simply help others. It is not punishment; in helping others fulfil their potential spirit guides are fulfilling their own potential. And so Spirit evolves ever upwards.
Perhaps some spirit guides have a harder task than others! I sometimes feel sorry for my guides :(
Nick the Pilot - September 23, 2010 11:00 AM (GMT)
No, being a spirit guide is not a punishment. Does it seem like it would be a punishment?
jahina - September 23, 2010 01:53 PM (GMT)
Not so much a punishment, but if you had to stay here, or come around yet again to this planet, that means you didn't do enough to get off it and onto the next stage of a spirit and lifes journey, no?
Nick the Pilot - September 23, 2010 06:08 PM (GMT)
If someone has achieved enlightenment but they decide to remain here on earth, it can only be for one reason -- because that person wishes to help the rest of us who have not yet achieved enlightenment. Therefore, it is done out of compassion rather than punishment. Please read the book, The Voice of the Silence
In this book, HPB begs us to stay on earth after we achieve enlightenment rather than going into Nirvana, so we can help those of us who have yet to achieve enlightenment.