What is meant by the "Aryan" race that C. W. Leadbeater speaks of in A Textbook of Theosophy. Is this referring to a literal race as we think of races in modern times, i.e. the color of someone's skin and their genetic background?

I'd like to know more about this. I looked up "Aryan Race" on Wikipedia, and there is a section devoted to Theosophy. Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race#Theosophy

I thought it was interesting that the very next section of that article is devoted to Nazi Germany. Is there any connection between the Aryan Race spoken of by Madame Blavatsky and the Aryan Race spoken of by Hitler and the Nazis?

Steven,

There are different and unique races. According to Theosophy, five races have appeared so far, and two more will appear, which will give us a total of seven races.

According to Theosophy, the first two races only existed on the astral plane, and never had physical bodies. These two races disappeared a long time ago, when everyone from those two races began incarnating into later races (with physical bodies).

The fifth race is the Caucasians. Orientals are seen as being in the fourth race. There is some question as to which race Blacks belong to. (Leadbeater identified Blacks as the third race, but I would not be too sure about that.) Blavatsky said something to the effect of Blacks being part of the fourth race.

Theosophy teaches the idea of the Aryan race (the Caucasians), which is something the Nazis latched onto. Some people say Theosophy teaches the Caucasian race is superior to the other races (which is what attracted the attention of the Nazis). Again, I would say this is a mistake — I have recently finished reading a book called The Mahatma Letters, in which the Mahatmas often state they see Europeans as inferior to Asians in clearly-defined ways.

Theosophy teaches the fifth race develops mental ability, while the fourth race develops the emotions. Such a situation does not automatically make the fifth race superior to the fourth race.

There is one more idea that shoots down the idea that Caucasians are superior. Theosophy teaches that Caucasians may later reincarnate as Orientals and Blacks. Such reincarnation is natural. If the Nazi claims of Caucasian superiorty were true, Caucasian reincarnation as Orientals and Blacks would be unnatural, which it not the case.

Theosophy's main reason for existence is to tell Caucasians not to treat others as inferior. A Caucasian who discriminates against Orientals and Blacks could very well reincarnate later as an Oriental or Black, causing them to suffer from the very discrimination they created.

Thnks for the reply, Nick.

I'm not sure I'm altogether following, though. The current president of the Theosophical Society - Adyar is Radha Burnier (I think that's how her name is spelled), and I'm quite certain she is a native Indian and not Caucasian, and that her father was also a member of the Theosophical Society, and maybe her grandparents too, I can't remember. I have heard her speak via the online videos on the Theosophical Society in America's website, and she is a very inspiring woman and full of wisdom.

I happen to be Caucasian myself, but I've never had any reason to believe that my race is essentially different from any others. Aren't there non-Caucasians in the Theosophical Society?

Steven,

You said,

"...I've never had any reason to believe that my race is essentially different from any others."

--> I would not say the Caucasian race is "different." It just has its own emphasis, and its own lesson that needs to be learned. I am also Caucasian, and I had the pleasure to live in Asia (Japan) for many years. There is no question that things are different in Japan than in America. I think the differences between Japan and American are a perfect example of one society focused on esthetics, and another focused on pragmatism.

"Aren't there non-Caucasians in the Theosophical Society?"

--> Of course there are. Theosophy was created for the very purpose of bringing together Caucasian and non-Caucasians. Theosophy takes credit for being one of the few philosophies that appeal to different races and nationalities. You should attend the US National get-together held in Illinois every summer, and see the various types of people in the Wheaton organization.

Hi Steven,

The First Object of the Theosophical Society is:

Therefore, there is not discrimination based on races, beliefs, etc. In fact, as far as I know, the TS was the first institution in promoting interfaith and inter-race dialog.
I think we all will agree that there are “higher” and “lower” human beings. In what sense? There are differences on the emotional/sensitive, moral, intellectual and spiritual level. Some people are very intelligent, others have no sense of morality, others have a lot of love in their hearts. Nobody can honestly deny that. But we live in an era of hypocrisy, denying differences (only with our mouth) and that is because we don’t have love in our heart.
The concept of being “lower” in Theosophy is not one of discrimination and judgment. It is like when one says that a child is lower in intellectual development than an adult. Because human beings are not “static” beings; they (their “soul”) grow, evolve, and he who is “lower” will be “higher” in due time.
Should the lower, or the different, be discriminated? According to Theosophy, the higher has a duty with the lower, and that is one of help and service. The same as happens with an ideal adult/child or a teacher/student relationship. You will find that all over the Theosophical literature. That, of course, has nothing to do with racist points of view.
Now, regarding the Root-Races, we cannot say “this individual belongs to this race and therefore is higher or lower”. The Root-Race is a general state of human evolution. And one Root-Race involves many different “races”, as considered by anthropology. But in each Root-Race there are highly evolved individuals and pretty degraded or unevolved ones. Besides, since the human being is a complex entity, one person/race may be much evolved in one aspect, and not so much in a different one. If anything, HPB’s Masters considered that the Western races were highly evolved in the intellectual field, but far less evolved in the spiritual than some of the Eastern races. However, we have to remember again that that is only a general statement that speaks more about the culture than specific individuals. In fact, it is usually considered that one individual will be reborn in most of the different races and countries on earth to gather different kind of experiences, according to the karmic need.
Most human beings tend to look for easy conclusions of yes/no, and in Theosophy you will rarely find that kind of answers. The universe is complex, the human being is complex, and so must be any philosophy that attempts to offer even a partial explanation to the development of both. Those who want to understand the Theosophical viewpoint about something, have to have a fairly good understanding of the whole system. You cannot make judgments out of some isolated excerpts. That is also true with any less transcendental science or philosophy.
I think we should discuss this in Wikipedia page and give a more accurate account of the theosophical viewpoint. Does anybody know how to do it?

Pablo,

Thank you very much for that response. That was really quite helpful!

I'm not sure how this could be discussed on wikipedia.

Can you recommend any good books for someone who has just started learning about Theosophy? I have read "A Textbook of Theosophy" by C. W. Leadbeater but I still have a lot of questions about everything.

Steven,

One book I like is At the Feet of the Master.

Krishnamurti (Alcyone), Jiddu, At the Feet of the Master (Online)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/other/alcyone.htm
Krishnamurti (Alcyone), Jiddu, At the Feet of the Master (Hardcopy)
http://www.questbooks.net/title.cfm?bookid=5

If you have questions, please ask them. The more, the better!

Hi Steven!

There are several books you can read.
A pretty complete book is Theosophy Explained in Questions and Answers By P. Pavri
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Rq2...LruV-w#PPA74,M1
You can find online a general and modern Introductory Study Course on Theosophy in the Website of the TS in America (Adyar) at
http://www.theosophical.org/resources/self...osophyintro.pdf
Then you can Study the Theosophical Manuals written by A. Besant and Leadbeater, most of them found online in http://www.theosophical.ca/AdyarTheosophicalManuals.htm and the rest in http://www.anandgholap.net/ . In this page you will also find several good books by A. Besant and Leadbeater.
Then you could read H.P. Blavatsky’s The Key to Theosophy
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/key/key-hp.htm
Besides, you should read certain “classical books” like
Light on the Path http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/lightpat/lightpat.htm
Practical Occultism http://www.theosophical.ca/PracticalOccult...ltArtsHPB2.html and
At the Feet of the Master http://www.katinkahesselink.net/other/alcyone.htm
There are many others. Those are books I know and I think could be useful as an introduction.

Here is a great collection of theosophical writings Steven:

http://blavatskyarchives.com/onlinematerial.htm#Introductory

I think To Light a Thousand Lamps by Knoche is an excellent intro.

The first book I read on Theosophy, was W. Q. Judge's "Ocean of Theosophy". It does show it's date (1893), compared to Knoche's "To Light a Thousand Lamps', which is also a great book. I believe that Judge's book deserves a second read, by me. My favorite author is G. de Purucker, as I can open any page and find wisdom.

G.de Purucker, btw, writes in 'Dialogues of G.de P.' , "The Negroes are the one human stock or family which at the present time is not lower than the so-called White Race, but has a racial future, though at the present period it is in it's infancy. ...The Negroes are descendants of Alanteans as we are, but they are behind us in evolutionary time because we outran them. At the present they are beginning to advance (written in 1941). It is the destiny of the Negroes to be a coming race. They are a young race. not a degenerate dying-out race, and they show this by their capacity even to live with the white man and not be completely submerged by him. They can stand the strain....He is coming up fast."
He goes on to use South America as an example of the mixing of races, and the progress they are making. Would I be right to say that HPB, when holding that America has a great future, it is because it is a melting pot?

BTW, are there any words on the Native Americans in theosophical writings. I know that through genetic studies ( of my wife's people) that they are very close to Koreans.

Jim B.

Of course skin color is not definitive for determining what group a person is part of, when incarnated. This passage from CW 5 212-13 gives the occult key:

Nicholas, thanks for getting me to see beyond the 'flesh' color. I have to begin to think more in more occult way.
I do not have the CW's, although I see it is available on a disk. I do have the new Theosophical Encyclopedia, in which it speaks of the Auric Egg. It quotes HPB (CW XII:608), " b. The storehouse of all the good and bad powers of man, receiving and giving out at his will and thought every potentiality, which becomes, then and there, an acting potency: this aura is the mirror in which sensitives and clairvoyants sense and perceive the real man, and see him as he is, not as he appears."
I'm not sure if this is related.

Sounds related to me Jim!

Here are the CW online; http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/

Thanks Nick the Pilot, Nicholas, Pablo, and Jim for all the responses and recommendations! I'll try to read some of those online books soon, and I'll see if some of the others are available through my local public library system.

Steven,

We have a section called, "What are you reading now?" Please feel free to start reading a book, and post your reactions in that section.

Hey all this is my first post, and as true to my nature im arguing haha.
i must disagree that Theosophy claims Whites are the 5th race, in my research i have found a fairly good description of what the Aryan race would be;

The claimed "subraces" of the Aryan Fifth Root Race include the Hindu, the Persian, the Egyptian (though Blavatsky sometimes seems to say that Egyptians are distinct from Aryans), the Greek and the European. Blavatsky described the fifth root race with the following words: "The Aryan races, for instance, now varying from dark brown, almost black, red-brown-yellow, down to the whitest creamy colour, are yet all of one and the same stock -- the Fifth Root-Race -- and spring from one single progenitor, (...) who is said to have lived over 18,000,000 years ago, and also 850,000 years ago -- at the time of the sinking of the last remnants of the great continent of Atlantis." (The Secret Doctrine vol.II, p.249)

According to Blavatsky the sixth sub-race will begin to evolve in the United States.

I very well good be repeating something in an eariler post as i only read the first couple, so if i am i apologize

TheSeeker,

Blavatsky warned us against saying the Whites are the fifth Race, the Orientals are the fourth Race, etc. She did say the Egyptians came from Atlantis, which would make them part of the fourth Race. One has to wonder, however, if any inter-marriage has occured during the intervening thousands and thousands of years. (Most likely, it has.)

Nick,

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't started reading anything yet because I have been overwhelmed with school work for the past few days. I will try to get caught up on Thursday or Friday so I can start reading about Theosophy again.

Race in Religion is actually the very subject that made me aware of Theosophy. So this topic is really interesting to me. I started exactly by looking at the origins of the "aryan" race as Nazis envisioned it. According to history and antropology, the aryans are Indian/Pakistani people, I'm just wondering how that could have possibly been interpreted as the Nazi version of "Aryans". There is said to be a linguistic link between indo iranians and germanic peoples, but that doesn't exactly make them the same race.

I dunno though because the concept of race in Theosophy seems a little spacey. i better just keep reading.

Jay,

You said,

"According to history and anthropology, the aryans are Indian/Pakistani people...."

--> According to Theosophy, the Indian culture is the first sub-race of the fifth Root Race. According to one Theosophical writer, the Iranian culture is the second sub-race of the fifth Root Race.

"...I'm just wondering how that could have possibly been interpreted as the Nazi version of "Aryans".

--> The Nazis took the Theosophical idea of Root Races and twisted it around for their own political purposes.

"There is said to be a linguistic link between indo iranians and germanic peoples, but that doesn't exactly make them the same race."

--> Same race, yes. Same sub-race, no.

I believe one must be very careful not to equate the Theosophical ideas of root races (and sub-races) with physiological and cultural ideas of ethnicity. Perhaps think of race as in 'human race'.

Go back to Nicholas' post quoting CW 5 212-13.

Yeah I think this is where I got tied up.

is there any recommended read that can give me more insight and perspective into the concept of race, and sub race in Theosophy?

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the theosophical concept of race. Something thats so relatively simple in the scientific realm.

First Root-Race: The Chhayas

It may come as a surprise, but the first Root-Race, the Chhayas, only existed on the astral plane, and did not have physical bodies.

“Chhaya ... is the astral image.” (SD vol 2 p 101)

“But men, during the first and the second races, were not physical beings, but merely rudiments [astral entities] of the future men: Bhutas....” (SD vol 2 p 108)

“Hence we believe in races of beings other than our own in far remote geological periods; in races of ethereal, following incorporeal, "Arupa," men, with form but no solid substance....” (SD vol 2 p 194)

“...primeval humanity had at first an ethereal ... form, evolved by gods or natural "forces," which grew, condensed throughout millions of ages, and became gigantic in its physical impulse and tendency, until it settled into the huge, physical form of the Fourth Race Man....” (SD vol 2 p 151)

“In those early ages, astral evolution was alone in progress, and the two planes, the astral and the physical, though developing on parallel lines, had no direct point of contact with one another.” (SD vol 2 p 157)

The astral bodies of the Chhyas were created by the Lunar Pitris.

“...the progenitors created man out of their own astral bodies....” (SD vol 2 p 112)

“...primeval humanity had at first an ethereal ... form, evolved by gods or natural "forces," which grew, condensed throughout millions of ages, and became gigantic in its physical impulse and tendency, until it settled into the huge, physical form of the Fourth Race Man....” (SD vol 2 p 151)

“The Progenitors of Man, called in India ‘Fathers,’ Pitara or Pitris, are the creators of our bodies and lower principles.... As stated, they were ‘lunar Beings.’ ” (SD vol 2 p 88)

“It is from the material Worlds that descend they, who fashion physical man at the new Manvantaras. They are inferior Lha (Spirits), possessed of a dual body (an astral within an ethereal form). They are the fashioners and creators of our body of illusion.” (SD vol 2 p 57)

“As to their fashioners or ‘Ancestors’ — those Angels who, in the exoteric legends, obeyed the law — they must be identical with the Barhishad Pitris, or the Pitar-Devata, i.e., those possessed of the physical creative fire.” (SD vol 2 p 94)
The astral bodies of the Fourth-Round Chhyas were created from astral matter carried over from the Third Round.

“The astral prototypes of the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdoms up to man have taken that time (300 million years) to evolve, re-forming out of the cast-off materials of the preceding Round, which, though very dense and physical in their own cycle, are relatively ethereal as compared with the materiality of our present middle Round. At the expiration of these 300 million years, Nature, on the way to the physical and material, down the arc of descent, begins with mankind and works downwards, hardening or materialising forms as it proceeds.” (quoted in SD vol 2 p 68)

The Chhayas are called The Sons of the Self-Born. They are also referred to as Shadows, because they only existed on the astral plane, lacking physical bodies.

“The ‘shadows,’ or Chhayas, are called the sons of the ‘self-born,’ as the latter name is applied to all the gods and Beings born through the WILL, whether of Deity or Adept.” (SD vol 2 p 120)

The Chhayas are also called The Sons of Yoga.

“The Commentaries explain that the first Race — the ethereal or astral Sons of Yoga [are] also called ‘Self-born’ ” (SD vol 2 p 198)

“The First [Race] were the Sons of Yoga.” (Shloka ii-5-18)

These ‘Forms’ are called ‘Sons of Yoga,’ because Yoga (union with Brahma exoterically) is the supreme condition of the passive infinite deity, since it contains all the divine energies and is the essence of Brahma, who is said (as Brahmâ) to create everything through Yoga power.

The Chhaya are also called the Sons of the Sons of Twilight.

“The Sons of the Sons of Twilight” (SD vol 2 p 109)

Chhayas — The First Race — appeared initially as astral off-shoots from the Progenitors (and never had physical bodies.)

“The First Race, the ‘Self-born,’ [were] the (astral) shadows of their Progenitors.” (SD vol 2 p 164)

It is [The Barhishad] ... who project the senseless model (the Astral) of the physical Being ... they could only give birth to the outer man, or rather to the model of the physical, the astral man. (SD vol 2 p 79)

The process by which the Chhayas were created is called Fission.

“Fission ... As seen in the division of the nucleated cell, in which the cell-nucleus splits into two sub-nuclei ... and multiply outside as independent entities.” (SD vol 2 p 166)

The Chhayas have completely disappeared.

“The ‘moon colored’ (i.e., the First and the Second Races) [are] gone for ever — ay, without leaving any traces whatever....” (SD vol 2 p 351)

Second Root-Race: The Hyperboreans

The Hyperboreans, like the Chhayas before them, existed only on the astral plane (not incarnating into physical bodies).

“But men, during the first and the second races, were not physical beings, but merely rudiments [astral entities] of the future men: Bhutas....” (SD vol 2 p 108)

The Second Race (Hyperboreans) appeared initially as astral buds from The First Race (Chhayas).

“The Second Race was the product by budding and expansion....” (Shloka ii-5-19)

“What will be most contested by scientific authorities is this a-sexual Race, the Second, the fathers of the ‘Sweat-born’.... ‘Budding’ is the very word used in the Stanza [to describe how they procreated]. How could these Chhayas reproduce themselves otherwise; viz., procreate the Second Race, since they were ethereal, a-sexual, and even devoid, as yet, of the vehicle of desire, or Kama Rupa?, which evolved only in the Third Race? They evolved the Second Race unconsciously, as do some plants.” (SD vol 2 p 116)

“When the season of reproduction arrives, the sub-astral [Chhaya] ‘extrudes’ a miniature of itself from the egg of surrounding aura. This germ grows and feeds on the aura till it becomes fully developed, when it gradually separates from its parent, carrying with it its own sphere of aura; just as we see living cells reproducing their like by growth and subsequent division into two.” (SD vol 2 p 117)

The Hyperboreans are called the Sweat-Born, because later members of their race were produced by budding.

“The Sons of Wisdom ... spurned the Sweat-born.” (Shloka ii-7-25)

“The early Second (Root) Race were the Fathers of the 'Sweat-born'; the later Second (Root) Race were 'Sweat-born' themselves.” (quoted in SD vol 2 p 117)

“When the race became old, the old waters [Chhayas] mixed with the fresher waters [Hyperboreans]; When the drops became turbid, they vanished and disappeared, in the new stream, in the hot stream of life. The outer of the First became the inner of the Second.... [Shloka ii-5-21] The old (primitive) Race merged in the second race, and became one with it.... This is the mysterious process of transformation and evolution of mankind. The material of the first forms — shadowy, ethereal, and negative — was drawn or absorbed into, and thus became the complement of the forms of the Second Race. The Commentary explains this by saying that, as the First Race was simply composed of the astral shadows of the creative progenitors, having of course neither astral nor physical bodies of their own — this Race never died. Its ‘men’ melted gradually away, becoming absorbed in the bodies of their own ‘sweat-born’ progeny, more solid than their own. The old form vanished and was absorbed by, disappeared in, the new form, more human and physical. There was no death in those days of a period more blissful than the Golden Age; but the first, or parent material was used for the formation of the new being, to form the body and even the inner or lower principles or bodies of the progeny.... When the shadow retires, i.e. when the astral body becomes covered with more solid flesh, man develops a physical body. The ‘wing,’ or the ethereal form that produced its shadow and image, became the shadow of the astral body and its own progeny.” (quoted in SD vol 2 p 121)

The Chhayas lived out their entire time in a single astral body, and eventually made the transition into the Hyperboreans. There must have been significant differences between the two races, but that information has been left out of The Secret Docrtrine.

The Chhayas and Hyperboreans have completely disappeared, without leaving any fossil remains (as they never had physical bodies).

“The ‘moon colored’ (i.e., the First and the Second Races) [are] gone for ever — ay, without leaving any traces whatever....” (SD vol 2 p 351)

Third Root-Race: The Lemurians

The Lemurians were the first to incarnate into physical bodies.

“...the Lemurian, the first physical man....” (SD vol 2 p 46)

The initial humans of the Third Race were formed by “budding” from the previous Race.

“The Second Race ... evolved out of itself ... the Third Androgyne Race.... ...the very earliest of that race were: — ‘The Sons of Passive Yoga. They issued from the second Manushyas (human race), and became oviparous. The emanations that came out of their bodies during the seasons of procreation were ovulary; the small spheroidal nuclei developing into a large soft, egg-like vehicle, gradually hardened, when, after a period of gestation, it broke and the young human animal issued from it unaided, as the fowls do in our race.’ ” (SD vol 2 pp. 165-166)

Here is another example of the Third Race being called the Sons of Passive Yoga.

“This Third Race is sometimes called collectively ‘the Sons of Passive Yoga,’ i.e., it was produced unconsciously by the second Race, which, as it was intellectually inactive, is supposed to have been constantly plunged in a kind of blank or abstract contemplation, as required by the conditions of the Yoga state. In the first or earlier portion of the existence of this third race, while it was yet in its state of purity, the "Sons of Wisdom," who, as will be seen, incarnated in this Third Race....” (SD vol 1 p 207)

Subsequent generations of the Third Race were called the “Egg-born”, which refers to Budding on the physical plane.

“The early Third Race, then, is formed from drops of ‘sweat,’ which, after many a transformation, grow into human bodies.” (SD vol 2 p 177)

“The First Race having created the Second by ‘budding,’ as just explained, the Second Race gives birth to the Third — which itself is separated into three distinct divisions, consisting of men differently procreated. The first two of these are produced by an oviparous method, presumably unknown to modern Natural History. While the early sub-races of the Third Humanity procreated their species by a kind of exudation of moisture or vital fluid, the drops of which coalescing formed an oviform ball — or shall we say egg? — which served as an extraneous vehicle for the generation therein of a foetus and child, the mode of procreation by the later races changed, in its results at all events.” (SD vol 2 p 132)

The separation of the sexes occured during the Lemurian Root-Race.

“...the men of the Third Race became physiologically and physically ready ... when they had separated into sexes.” (SD vol 2 p 228)

The Third Race, then, can be divided into three periods.

Early Period (Sweat-Born, the same process as the Second Race)
Middle Period (Egg-Born)
Last Period (Sex-Born, the same process as today)

Fourth Root-Race: The Atlanteans

“...the Atlanteans were a very ancient northern nation, long prior to the Hindoos, the Phoenicians, and the Egyptians.” (quoted in SD vol 2 p 265)

“Atlanteans were developed from a nucleus of Northern Lemurian Third Race Men, centred, roughly speaking, toward a point of land in what is now the mid-Atlantic Ocean. Their continent was formed by the coalescence of many islands and peninsulas which were upheaved in the ordinary course of time and became ultimately the true home of the great Race known as the Atlanteans.” (SD vol 2 p 334)

“The term ‘Atlantean’ must not mislead the reader to regard these as one race only, or even a nation. It is as though one said ‘Asiatics.’ Many, multityped, and various were the Atlanteans, who represented several humanities, and almost a countless number of races and nations, more varied indeed than would be the ‘Europeans’ were this name to be given indiscriminately to the five existing parts of the world; which, at the rate colonization is proceeding, will be the case, perhaps, in less than two or three hundred years. There were brown, red, yellow, white and black Atlanteans; giants and dwarfs (as some African tribes comparatively are, even now).” (SD vol 2 p 433)

“...the Mediterranean barbarians ... marvelled at the prowess of the Atlanteans. ‘Their physical strength was extraordinary (witness indeed their cyclopean buildings), the earth shaking sometimes under their tread.’ ” (SD vol 2 p 753 note)

Atlanteans were the first physical, intellect-using race.

“...it is only from the time of the Atlantean, brown and yellow giant Races, that one ought to speak of MAN, since it was the Fourth race only which was the first completely human species, however much larger in size than we are now.” (SD vol 2 p 227)

“...the Atlanteans were really the first purely human and terrestrial race - those that preceded it being more divine and ethereal than human and solid.” (SD vol 2 p 266)

The appearance and disappearance of races is gradual, and the different races always overlap.

“Since the beginning of the Atlantean Race many million years have passed, yet we find the last of the Atlanteans, still mixed up with the Aryan element, 11,000 years ago. This shows the enormous overlapping of one race over the race which succeeds it, though in character and external type the elder loses its characteristics, and assumes the new features of the younger race. This is proved in all the formations of mixed human races.” (SD vol 2 p 444)
Atlanteans were giants.

“The giants of Genesis are the historical Atlanteans of Lanka, and the Greek Titans.” (SD vol 2 p 236)

“...if Noah was an Atlantean, then he was a Titan, a giant....” (SD vol 2 p 265)
Atlantis ended when its continent sank under the ocean.

“...the Atlanteans were post diluvian to the Lemurians, and Lemuria was not submerged as Atlantis was....” (SD vol 2 p 266)

Atlantis was the last part of history where newly-individualized humans had their first incarnation.

“No fresh Monads have incarnated since the middle-point of the Atlanteans.” (SD vol 2 p 303)

The Greeks came from the Atlanteans.

“...The Greeks were but the dwarfed and weak remnant of that once glorious nation.... What was this nation? The secret doctrine teaches that it was the latest, seventh sub-race of the Atlanteans, already swallowed up in one of the early sub-races of the Aryan stock....” (SD vol 2 p 743)

“For a full discussion of the relations between the old Greeks and Romans, and the Atlantean colonists, cf. Five Years of Theosophy. ” (SD vol 2 p 743)
Atlantis was a time of negativity.

“...many of us are now working off the effects of the evil Karmic causes produced by us in Atlantean bodies.” (SD vol 2 p 303)

“The Atlantean races were many, and lasted in their evolution for millions of years: all were not bad. They became so toward their end, as we (the fifth) are fast becoming now.” (SD vol 2 p 272 note)

“It was the Atlanteans, the first progeny of semi-divine man after his separation into sexes — hence the first-begotten and humanly-born mortals — who became the first ‘Sacrificers’ to the god of matter. They stand in the far-away dim past, in ages more than prehistoric, as the prototype on which the great symbol of Cain was built, as the first anthropomorphists who worshipped form and matter. That worship degenerated very soon into self-worship, thence led to phallicism, or that which reigns supreme to this day in the symbolisms of every exoteric religion of ritual, dogma, and form.

“Thus the first Atlantean races, born on the Lemurian Continent, separated from their earliest tribes into the righteous and the unrighteous; into those who worshipped the one unseen Spirit of Nature, the ray of which man feels within himself - or the Pantheists, and those who offered fanatical worship to the Spirits of the Earth, the dark Cosmic, anthropomorphic Powers, with whom they made alliance.” (SD vol 2 p 273)

“...the ‘Lemurians’ and the Atlanteans, ‘those children of Heaven and Earth,’ were indeed marked with a character of SORCERY....” (SD vol 2 p 286)

“...the ungodly Atlanteans perished, and ‘were seen no more....’ ” (SD vol 2 p 350)

The mysteries of Heaven and Earth, revealed to the Third Race by their celestial teachers in the days of their purity, became a great focus of light, the rays from which became necessarily weakened as they were diffused and shed upon an uncongenial, because too material soil. With the masses they degenerated into Sorcery, taking later on the shape of exoteric religions, of idolatry full of superstitions, and man-, or hero-worship.” (SD vol 2 p 281)

“...the Atlanteans became the terrible sorcerers, now celebrated in so many of the oldest [manuscripts] of India, only toward their fall, the submersion of their continent having been brought on by it.” (SD vol 2 p 636)

The negativity of Lemuria and Atlantis led to the creation of today's mystery religions.

“An impenetrable veil of secrecy was thrown over the occult and religious mysteries taught, after the submersion of the last remnant of the Atlantean race, some 12,000 years ago, lest they should be shared by the unworthy, and so desecrated.... It is this secrecy which led the Fifth Race to the establishment, or rather the re-establishment of the religious mysteries, in which ancient truths might be taught to the coming generations under the veil of allegory and symbolism. .” (SD vol 2 p 124)

Fifth Root-Race: The Aryans

“The Aryan race was born and developed in the far north, though after the sinking of the continent of Atlantis its tribes emigrated further south into Asia.” (SD vol 2 p 768)

“The rapid progress of anthropomorphism and idolatry led the early Fifth, as it had already led the Fourth Race, into sorcery....” (SD vol 2 p 503)

“The Aryan races, for instance, now varying from dark brown, almost black, red-brown-yellow, down to the whitest creamy colour, are yet all of one and the same stock — the Fifth Root-Race — and spring from one single progenitor, called in Hindu exotericism by the generic name of Vaivasvata Manu....” (SD vol 2 p 250)

“Nor is Bailly wrong again in assuring us that the Hindus, Egyptians, and Phoenicians came after the Atlanteans, for the latter belonged to the Fourth, while the Aryans and their Semitic Branch are of the Fifth Race.” (SD vol 2 p 266)

“The Aryan nations ... trace their descent through the Atlanteans from the more spiritual races of the Lemurians, in whom the "Sons of Wisdom" had personally incarnated.” (SD vol 2 p 318)

“From verse 24 to 34, ch. xxv. of Genesis contains the allegorical history of the birth of the Fifth Race.” (SD vol 2 p 705)

Sixth Root-Race (Unnamed)

“... the Sixth [Root-Race] will [rapidly grow] out of its bonds of matter, and even of flesh.” (SD vol 2 p 446)

“The Fifth will overlap the Sixth Race for many hundreds of millenniums, changing with it slower than its new successor, still changing in stature, general physique, and mentality, just as the Fourth overlapped our Aryan race, and the Third had overlapped the Atlanteans.” (SD vol 2 p 445)

“In the Sixth Root-Race ... new forms — though fewer and ever wider apart as ages pass on and the close of the Manvantara approaches — will develop from the ‘cast off’ types of the human races as they revert once again to astral, out of the mire of physical, life.” (SD vol 2 p 263)

[Someday, in the distant future,] “...the Sixth Root-Race will have appeared on the stage of our Round. When shall this be? Who knows save the great Masters of Wisdom, perchance, and they are as silent upon the subject as the snow-capped peaks that tower above them. All we know is, that it will silently come into existence; so silently, indeed, that for long millenniums shall its pioneers — the peculiar children who will grow into peculiar men and women — be regarded as anomalous lusus naturae, abnormal oddities physically and mentally. Then, as they increase, and their numbers become with every age greater, one day they will awake to find themselves in a majority.” (SD vol 2 p 445)

“Since the beginning of the Atlantean Race many million years have passed, yet we find the last of the Atlanteans, still mixed up with the Aryan element, 11,000 years ago. This shows the enormous overlapping of one race over the race which succeeds it, though in character and external type the elder loses its characteristics, and assumes the new features of the younger race. This is proved in all the formations of mixed human races. Now, Occult philosophy teaches that even now, under our very eyes, the new Race and Races are preparing to be formed, and that it is in America that the transformation will take place, and has already silently commenced.... Thus the Americans have become in only three centuries a ‘primary race,’ pro tem., before becoming a race apart, and strongly separated from all other now existing races. They are, in short, the germs of the Sixth sub-race, and in some few hundred years more, will become most decidedly the pioneers of that race which must succeed to the present European or fifth sub-race, in all its new characteristics. After this, in about 25,000 years, they will launch into preparations for the seventh sub-race; until, in consequence of cataclysms — the first series of those which must one day destroy Europe, and still later the whole Aryan race (and thus affect both Americas), as also most of the lands directly connected with the confines of our continent and isles — the Sixth Root-Race will have appeared on the stage of our Round.” (SD vol 2 pp. 444-445)

[The] “process of preparation for the Sixth great Race must last throughout the whole sixth and seventh sub-races (vide supra, the diagram of the Genealogical Tree of the Fifth Race). But the last remnants of the Fifth Continent will not disappear until some time after the birth of the new Race; when another and new dwelling, the sixth continent, will have appeared above the new waters on the face of the globe, so as to receive the new stranger. To it also will emigrate and settle all those who shall be fortunate enough to escape the general disaster.” (SD vol 2 p 445)

“Mankind will not grow again into giant bodies as in the case of the Lemurians and the Atlanteans; because while the evolution of the Fourth race led the latter down to the very bottom of materiality in its physical development, the present Race is on its ascending arc; and the Sixth will be rapidly growing out of its bonds of matter, and even of flesh.” (SD vol 2 p 446)

Seventh Root-Race (Unnamed)

“... the great Adepts and Initiated ascetics will ‘multiply,’ i.e., once more produce Mind-born immaculate Sons — in the Seventh Root-Race.” (SD vol 2 p 275)

thats an eye full. Thanks!

Jay,

I want to add one more idea. You raised the question as to which of today's cultures belong to the Fourth Race, and which of today's cultures belong to the Fifth Race. I, too, have wondered the same question. Here are two of my observations

(1) When I look at the European cultures, and I compare them to the Asian cultures, I can only wonder if they belong to two different Races as described by HPB. If so, such an idea makes sense to me.

(2) HPB has described the Fourth Race as people who were giants. (I have a number of quotes on this, if you are interested in seeing them.) You may know that a race of giants is even mentioned in the Bible itself. When I look at it this way, I wonder if the Fourth Race was a race of giants that has completely disappeared.

It is clear to me that part of the story is missing. One of the problems with HPB's writings is that she only gave us part of the story — for various reasons. Sadly, we are often left with the difficult task of piecing together what she left out of her explanations.

That's because they are referring to two different things. The scientific concept is plain, objective, physical. The theosophical one is metaphysical and esoteric.
In Theosophy, the more you get a general knowledge of the system, the more you can see its logic. But it is hard at the beginning. The problem with this subject is what we call the correspondences and reflections of the greater cycles into the smaller ones.
A "root-race" is a stage of evolution. It is both a general or global state and an individual one. And that stage is reflected in different levels (physical, moral, spiritual) in different ways.
For example, as a general cycle of evolution, humanity is going through the fifth root-race or stage (out of seven). All the scientific, anthropological, races (ethnicities) belong to this fifth root-race. That is our stage of evolution, and the fourth root-race (the Atlantean) was our previous stage. They are ourselves, in the past. In each root race the furthering of one of the principles constituting the human being (emotions, mind, spiritual intuition, etc.) is the central task.
In the theosophical literature it is said that our fifth root-race begun around one million years ago (remnants of the previous root races are said to be under the oceans, and that’s the reason why science doesn’t know anything about them, yet). Thus, the whole humanity has fifth-race bodies and our task is the development of our mind. But that is the general cycle. Each human being is in a different stage (fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and beyond) in his/her moral and spiritual development.
The influence of previous root-races, however, is still among humanity, in what it is call the “sub-races” (the theosophical “subraces” are more closely related to the scientific “races”). Thus, the bodies, the emotional nature, the mental features of different subraces are a “fifth root-race expression” of the different root-races. One simple example: the fourth root race worked particularly on the emotional nature (although they had a mental development also, of course, but from an esoteric point of view the occult maturation was taking place on the emotional nature). It is said that the Latin races are reflections of this root-race, and that is why their people were usually more concern with or bent to the arts, emotions, beauty, etc., than other subraces.
Although there is a definite difference in evolution between root-races (the fifth being more evolved than the fourth, and less evolved than the sixth one to come), there is not such a thing among the subraces (or the scientific races). Thus, the first subrace is not less evolved than the fifth one. They are different developments and the soul has to pass through all the subraces, in whatever order. Therefore, there is no room for discrimination against one ethnicity or the other.
well... it was my attempt to explain in a few words some aspects of this huge subject. Probably, others can contribute with different angles of this topic.
p

HPB has described the Fourth Race as people who were giants. (I have a number of quotes on this, if you are interested in seeing them.) You may know that a race of giants is even mentioned in the Bible itself. When I look at it this way, I wonder if the Fourth Race was a race of giants that has completely disappeared.

theres no denyin that Eastern and Western cultures are like sun and moon, but if the 4ths were physically large, then its not likely they are related to Asian peoples who tend to be more petite. Also if its said that the Atlanteans occupied a submerged region in the Atlantic Ocean. Then the Orient seems a bit out of the way for their reminants to surface. But if you look for relatively large people who live along the Atlantic, your looking at Nordic peoples. In medival times they were known to be above average in stature. Also adept seafarers. Which ties in with the great flood, sunken city mythos. but then that theory wreaks of evolution and really disregards the ethereal.

Jay,

You said,

"...Also if its said that the Atlanteans occupied a submerged region in the Atlantic Ocean. Then the Orient seems a bit out of the way for their reminants to surface."

--> True. However, the times involved is huge.

[It has been] “...850,000 [years] since the submersion of the last large peninsula of the great Atlantis....” (SD vol 2 p 10)

“...most of the later islander Atlanteans perished in the interval between 850,000 and 700,000 years ago, and that the Aryans were 200,000 years old when the first great ‘island’ or continent was submerged....” (SD vol 2 p 395)

--> We can only imagine how much immigrating has been going on in the last 850,000 years. Also, I believe the Guardian Spirits designate a particular place on a particular continent for their Race. If they want their Race in Asia, that is where it is going to be, no matter what. Next, we have no idea how much the continents have changed in the last 850,000 years — who knows what kinds of Atlantean civilizations may have come and gone in America and Asia during that time. Also, maybe the Atlanteans lived on a huge continent that stretched from Atlantis, across America, and into the Pacific Ocean — we just do not know.

Thats an intriguing possibility.

One more thing. If the 5th and 6th are to over lap for so long, how are we to know that the 6th is not already underway?

Some people theorize that a few people of the Sixth Race may have already been born. Others say it will not start until thousands of years in the future. I think I saw an HPB or Mahatma Letters quote on this subject, but I am not sure. (If anyone has one of the quotes, please feel free to share it.)

I am sure that the two Races (5th and 6th) will overlap for thousands of years.

If you think about it, it would be practically impossible, and logistically counterproductive, for the two Races not to overlap for thousands of years.

I am curious about the Semites. I wonder if they are part of the Indo-Aryans or a succeeding sub-race, or both. Rosicrucians and Santiago Bovisio start the Europeans at the 2nd or 3rd sub-race. A reason the Semites might be Indo-Aryan is if what I read is true that part of the Tanakh is based on the Mahabharata. According to SD, the part of the Tanakh about Noah does not have to do with Vaivasvatu but with a deluge at Samothrace. Maybe it will be hard to figure out the sub-race, nation, family, or whatever.

I've always interpreted the theosophical concept of race as something that is entirely different from the popular concept of race. The Aryan race is to put it simply, all of humanity. Even the Chinese and the Jews, who were considered by HPB to belong from the last sub race of the fourth root race, is a part of the fifth root race. So 'race' or species is not really about anthropology but more about conscious reality, namely the conscious reality that the human race uses to view the universe, whatever the overall consensus of that view may be.

I think that the theosophical concept of race is trying to point out to people that human or rather sentient evolution is not an accident of nature, but an outcome of divine or otherworldly will. Now,this may not sit well with humanistic and rationalistic paradigms but from the occult perspective, IMO, it works as it shows how the consciousness and the psyche develops through gradual reincarnation (or something similar to reincarnation) into various different sentient species.

The evolution of races is not a unique to theosophy. As mentioned before, other occult schools such as the Rosicrucians have a similar concept in their own belief system. Another example is the Urantia book where the Sangik race originated. And from history, we have the Tuatha de danaan (not sure if that's the right spelling) from Irish legend.

So nothing new there really.

I think that we also need to keep in mind that 'race' refers primarily to the vehicles and their evolution. HPB described three processes of evolution: the physical, the manasic, and the evolution of the monad.

As monads, we have incarnated in all of the root races and subraces. Who were the Atlantians? We were. Who were the Lemurians? We were. Who were the 'men' of the first and second root races? You got it, we were.

When we talk about root races, we are not talking about 'other people.' We are our own fathers and grandfathers.

I recall reading that, but also that flood in Manu Vaivasvatu's time was Asian, not worldwide, and that the flood of Noah, i.e. Vaivasvatu, was based on Samothrace mysteries (or did I assume Noah is Vaivasvatu?) HPB (or at least other Theosophers) specify some Lemurian and Atlantean races, so I do and I do not understand why they are now Aryan except by not being giants. I do not see how they
they necessarily got all mixed: of course each root race led to the next, but variations
exist geographically. Did HPB define Aryan both as humanity of current-day mental development, or
and height, or also as the Indo-Aryans, i.e. people of India from Vaivasvatu? I know it is both, though African and N & W Asian peoples are now considered maybe older than Indians, so Africa's & N & W Asia's language groups may be older. However, I recall SD evidence culture or even civilization has been in India for hundreds of thousands of years--longer than Sumeria, China, and, if HPB said about millions of years, maybe Africa. Everyone is mentally and (mostly) physically Aryan: the
term is rather irrelevant, and it is only a small part of the language groups.

'People of [The Goddess] Danu' (also named Dana[an,]) yes, so at least capitalize 'Danaan.' They
are became the 'Daoine Sidhe' (elves/faeries/divinities of Danu.) She may also be in Scottish mythology, if it still exists, or that may be Irish mythology if everyone in very ancient Scotland was
Irish. That might only be true for [a] certain tribe[s.]

I've read that they went into Ethiopia and Egypt, but also went through Lanka, an old Sanskrit name, - also known as Ceylon - and on into the Indus River Valley. I also think they came from the West, on into India, and mixed with Fifth Root-Race before arriving in India. These are the Atlanteans that I'm talking about, and the ones coming from the West I would suspect to be people that came from the Eastern-most part of Atlantis.

I'm inclined to conceive of a Root-Race as one race, even though there are obviously discernable distinctions giving one the natural understanding that there are seperate ethnicities. If I was going to consider any as being the main race, I would say they are the ones that look like Arabs and the ones who look like the people of India.

I also have a weak position of considering younger souls being the ones with the older blood-types, and older souls having the more recently occurring blood-types. The oldest is type O and newest type AB. The younger souls have more spirituality however, which to me seems contra-distinctive or counter intuitive (not what I would be inclined to believe). That is what I have read. Except for the blood type theory, that is just a personal concept I've come up with recently. If one is an older soul, slighly more evolved, I imagine they would get a slightly advanced physical form.

H. P. Blavatsky wrote that the Hebrew, and perhaps she is referring to their religion of Judaism, as being an unnatural link between the Fourth and Fifth Root-Races. Of that point in history when the Exodus occurred with Moses leading his people fleeing from Egypt, I've seen three different versions on the History Channel alone.

I'm not real confident that I understand why she made the comment. In the first century Christian Era, Philo Judaeus wrote much about the similarities and identities between Plato and Moses, trying to convince the Greeks that a commonality existed between them. With his Jewish peers he did the same with the exception in this case of making Plato the one who emulated Moses.

Since Neo-Platonism and Judaism shared a close commonality, and this is verifiable by simply reading the texts of Philo Judaeus and a contemporary, Flavius Josephus. I would also add that most Gnostic sects were based upon the Greek Neo-Platonism teachings. Where I'm directing this toward inadequately due to brevity, is that Neo-Platonism traces back to Pythagoras, which would then take us to the Indus River Valley. Yes, the Pharisee's knew all about pre-existence, reimbodiment, rebirth, palingenesis, transmigration, metempsychosis, reincarnation, and metensomatosis. Which makes John 3:1-7 a bit odd and even suspect. Nicodemus didn't know what it meant to be born of water and of spirit? a Pharisee didn't know that. John 9:2 the apostles are asking Jesus of a man born blind, who sinned, the parents or the man? We of this physical matter sin, if he is born blind, why would they think he sinned? Men in physical form and living beings on earth sin.

It is extremely easy to find out that every people; Jewish, Greek, Egyptian, Druidic, Nordic, believed in pre-existence and some form of metempsychosal reincarnation before and during the first emanation of Christianity. The foundation and main structural framework of it had been flowing into these people, centuries before Philo Judaeus and Flavius Josephus existed. The source was the Indus River Valley. I'm not certain anymore that ancient Egypt is equally valid as that which came from Buddhists and Brahmanic teachings. Although I understand now, the purpose of mummification, I still have uncertainty that it stems from selfless motivations.

I'm done droning on and as to what the Semites would be, my input would be that they are Aramaic rather than referring to a religion. If I would have to choose a side in this world of shells, it would be the Jewish people, but I'm becoming more and more shaky on that. I would rather our wills would be less conflicting and antagonistic. But that requires a reduction of self centeredness, and how would we fulfill our many desires being selfless?