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If the "fall back" tactic is used & the unit moves through an enemy of more than 5 unit strength is the unit destroyed?

p.41 of the mini rulebook reads:

under the hit-&-run special rule it reads:

Hit-&-Run fallback question?

It'd be arguable, and you could always guess the side your opponent will be on...

As it isn't actually fleeing, I would say they are not destroyed but instead stop 1" away from the enemy unit (as all non-combatants must be separated by 1").

Being flyers, it could be argued that they could fly over the enemy (and so continue on past the enemy unit rather than stopping)- I can't remember if the rulebook mentions anything specific about fleeing flyers.

I'd expect some errata on this one day... maybe whenever they bring out the wood elf errata...

Its a 'special' kind of fleeing so i say no they are not destroyed. Unless you land on an enemy unit then yes you are destroyed.

Its like impassable terrain normal foot troops would die if they flee into it but flyers woudl go over it wouldn;t they? Its common sense at the end of the day and people who argue are rules lawyers and not worth playing against.

But yes it can certainly be argued. But i would say no you are not even if i was playing against wood elfs.

SDETT

I say they die. The move is treated as fleeing, not normal movement. so you follow the rules for fleeing with the exceptions noted in the rule. Just becuase it doesnt make sense does not mean that it isnt right. If you hit and run into an enemy unit, you die. Simple.

I'm not sure whether they'd be destroyed. If they aren't, then I think it's far more likely they'd be placed on the other side of the enemy (whether flying over or through), but to be honest I can't think of anywhere in the rules where this is even remotely clarified.

The lack of Errata is annoying to be sure... I may start up a thread which we can go through various things which are unclear, and also make a list of the things that need to be in the errata. It will also help to bring up things we can agree on (even if not clear to the letter) which we can put in our unofficial FAQ.

Servant of Isha.

This post has been edited by Servant of Isha on Apr 17 2007, 09:28 AM

i think I'd have to side with them being destroyed.

It sounds like it is treated as a normal fall back move aside from not causing panic checks and they auto rally. But it does not mention that they are immune to being destroyed by fleeing off the table.

So I think that they would also be destroyed by enemy units of US 5+ too that was brought in during 7th Ed.

Well remember one thing. When you move your fleeing move your are using your flying move if your a flyer. Ie you fly! In the same way as you may fly over other units using your normal fly move. If you think logical (Which is the number 1 rule in arguments!) then they will not be destroyed as they will not go through anything. They go OVER not through therefore they are not destroyed unless you acctualy hit the enemy. At least thats whats make sense. A rule lawyers and to be honest they should all be smacked with the BRBOD (Big Red Book Of DOOM) if they argue with that.

I would have to disagree with you. If flyers fly over units when they flee, then why are they automatically destroied when they dont have hit and run. I really dont see the arguement here, and in fact, the 'rules lawyers' would be the people trying to claim that they would survive running into enemies. The rules clearly state that they would die, and now where does it say that they would fly over the enemy or otherwise survive.

Certainly I agree there; on the basis of flying only, they should be destroyed as this would be consistant. I myself am unsure because of hit & run itself. You'd expect it to be more orderly (they're doing it on purpose so...), which confuses the situation.

To go with the rules as they stand, I'd probably say they are destroyed, but it would be more into the feel of it if they weren't. Also if they are destroyed by this then there are even more reasons for people not to field them, which is a shame. Hopefully there will be an official FAQ & Errata that turns up eventually.

Servant of Isha.

[/QUOTE]I would have to disagree with you. If flyers fly over units when they flee, then why are they automatically destroied when they dont have hit and run.[QUOTE]

Who says that they are? Pg 68 in the rules state that ALL flyers use their flying movement when they flee, meaning they are only dead if they land on a unit, the question I see here is if Warhawk riders would die when they land on the unit or would they hop over the unit or land 1 inch away.

To answer that, I would say that in that situation, they die if they loose combat or combat is a draw, but if elected to fall back, they hop over the unit.

Ps. "Use Flying movement" means FLYING in the air, unless the troops are as tall as the stratosphere, then they can be flown over.

This post has been edited by sethayla on Apr 18 2007, 01:54 AM

After reading the flying rule, when they flee, the only time they would get wiped out would be if they fled and landed on an enemy unit of unit strength 5 or more. Since the Hit and Run move is a flee move, they would only die if they landed on an enemy unit.

I've just re-read the Flyer rules too and it seems that flyers are immune to crossfie unless they land on an enemy unit that is US 5+.

This seems a bit silly to me and makes flyers really powerful, especially large targets who can charge over friends and enemies as it is.

The answer is pretty simple really. When Flyers flee, they can choose to either flee by flying away 3D6", or flee on foot using their base movement (e.g. Warhawks have M1, so they would flee only 2D6" on foot). If they are 'flying' when fleeing, they may flee OVER enemy units if their movement allows them to. However if their flee move makes them LAND on an enemy unit, then are destroyed. If they are fleeing 'on foot', and their flee movement takes them through an enemy unit of US5 or more they are destroyed as, obviously, they are fleeing by foot, not by wing. (pg.68 of the WFRB, 'Fleeing and Pursuing')

So that brings me to WeeDawgs question:

It all depends on whether the Warhawks flee by wing or by foot. As it doesn't say otherwise in the rules for 'hit-and-run', I assume you can still choose how you want to flee. So:

- If the unit flees by wing, they fly over any enemy units and are not destroyed. HOWEVER...if they END their flee move in an enemy unit of US5 or more, they are destroyed.
- If the unit flees on foot, and flees through an enemy unit of US5 and more, they are destroyed.

That should answer your question...I hope. Also, remember that Warhawks cannot fly in woods, so if they are fleeing in a forest they have to flee 'on foot'.

Lynx

Totally agreed! Especially the BRBOD! (those who live by the book die by the book).

In such situations like this i say at the end of it that its common sense that takes place and decides the outcome (how would a flyer run? especially when i picture the warhawks swooping downwards from the air hitting killing a mage to then flying away into the horizon, or like the fellbeasts of LOTR attacking the men on the walls of minas tirith, they don't 'land').

Otherwise the warhawks will be so useless i will never take them instead go for a great eagle.

Anyways i think its all sorted now.

SDETT

This post has been edited by Silly Dragon Elf the Third on Apr 18 2007, 01:41 PM

Seems like a good resolution. There's still the instance of landing on an enemy unit and whether they should be destroyed or moved forwards (hit and run only, not fleeing where they are destroyed), but it's small enough that we could easily concede to them being destroyed in that situation. Silly of me not to think of the situation from that angle...

Servant of Isha.