The Lost Glade News

[Glim]

Soon I will be challenging an Orc&Goblin player, I've made a list but I'm not sure if it's balanced.
He uses a lot of magic, warmachines, big blocks and is also fond of heavilly equipped characters, alongside wolf riders and boar chariots.

Okay I'll just list what I was thinking of and hope you've got some good ideas.


Wardancer Highborn, Blades of Loec, Amber Pendant, an Annoyance of Nettlings

Spellweaver L4, Wand of Wych Elm, 1scroll
Spellsinger L2, Staff of Sorcery
Spellsinger L2, Deepwood Sphere, 1scroll
Spellsinger L2, Divination Orb, 1scroll
Branchwraith L1
Branchwraith L1
Branchwraith L1, a Cluster of Radiants

5 Glade Riders
5 Glade Riders
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Wardancers, mus, champ
8 Wardancers, mus, champ
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Waywatchers
1 Treeman
1 Treeman
1 Great Eagle


7 points left.
15 power dice
11 dispel dice

Maybe I should drop a L2 and make another L2 a L4 or introduce another fighting character.

[Zelt Arruin]

My advise would be to ignore magic entirely. That and a dragon or two would be neat. I suppose I could embellish a little, oh well.

[Hillbilly Carl]

I think you should have some more shooting. 2 units of 10 glade guard at least (3 or 4 would be better). In a game this size you are going to be hopelessly outnumbered by greenskins so the more even you can make it before the fighting starts the better. 20-40 more bow shots a turn will do quite a bit to even up those odds .

I would also drop one of your branchwraiths for a wardancer noble, give him the moonstone for a bit of trickery (makes them good for attacking war machines and reinforcing a flank etc). I like to have a wardancer character in each of my wardancer units (makes them hit so much harder) but that is a matter of personal taste and it might not be what you are looking for.

You have a lot of points in magic which can be good but it can also backfire. You have 6 units that have magic resistance (wild riders and wardancers) which means you may not need all that magical defense and upgrading all your branchwraiths might be a waste of points. If you dropped the upgrade on all of them it frees up 150 points which you could use to turn one of your level 2 spellsingers into a level 4 spellweaver. You would only lose 1 power dice but you would gain a whole lot of flexibility with your casting ability.

I'd also be tempted to toss in a small unit (or two) of treekin, maybe instead of one of your wild rider units. They will give you a unit that can survive a bit better than most wood elf units and it also dishes out some decent attacks.

It sounds like an epic battle and I can't wait to read about how it goes. Good Luck!

This post has been edited by Hillbilly Carl on Aug 4 2009, 10:45 PM

[Geep]

Your list is pretty good IMO.
You've got magic defence covered very well, and although wood elf magic doesn't have much offence what it does give will really help here. You can cast treesinging more times than is sensible, getting woods in the way of his war machine's LOS and just stuffing up his movement in general. If he goes goblin heavy he'll struggle with deployment and movement space, compounded by animosity- a forest moving into the way may make him cry.

Don't forget to lure out fanatics with units in woods- they'll trigger fanatics, but it's instant death to the fanatic if it touches terrain.

More shooting wouldn't be bad, but you're not going to be causing break tests easily vs these goblin units (I assume your opponent knows beter than to have many small goblin units). You'll have to rely on combat, and you should be good at that with this list.

The amount of fear and terror causers you have should really hurt his army- just make sure to put them where they'll be most effective, away from his general. If you really want to capitalise on his low Ld you may want to take someone on a dragon with the Wraithstone. Ld 5 common goblins and ld 4 night goblins for the terror tests (just remember the fanatics).

Watch out for squig hoppers- immune to psychology and they don't need LOS to charge- shoot these guys early.

With all of your skirmishers you should be ok vs bolt throwers (the main O&G war machine spam) and rock lobbers, but doom divers will still hurt.

Orc characters have very little impressive equipment IMO- too much is exclusive to specifically orcs or specifically goblins. Things to watch out for are the Brimstone Bauble (one of his characters may explode on death) and special characters- Grimgor especially (7 attacks, str 7, always strikes first, re-roll to hit).

Do you have any more of an idea of what his list will be like? I've assumed from the topic title that he'll have a lot of goblins, but if he takes a lot of orcs (and black orc characters) that may change things a bit.

[Glim]

Thanks for the great reactions!

I expect a lot of Orcs at least 20 man strong, Geep you were right, he is an experienced player and will not take goblins under 30 man strong. Grimgor is indeed his most valued special character and I do suspect that he will bring him to the table. As well as Black Orc characters + units. A lot of Warmachines and magic is the spill of his playing style. Plus enough small units to create counter charges for his large main blocks and interfere with me getting in charge range with my Wild riders. A Wyvern is a possibility, but Grimgor is more interesting for him, both seems like an overkill and interfers with getting a balanced army.

Zelt Arruin's proposal for non-magic is interesting because I can put a huge block of eternal guard in, possibly 7 man, 3 ranks, a Highborn with Rhymer's Harp and an Annoyance of Nettlings. I will work on a second list for this.

Hillbilly Carl's proposal of more shooting is oke, but in the form of mobile Glade riders, since glade guard don't do much against large blocks and the small units will not be dancing in front of those yelling, shoot me!, shoot me!
Wardancer characters are a great idea! Moonstone I'm not sure about, better stay with the Blades of Loec.
As for Magic defence/offence check my new list below. Thanks for the input!
Treekin can be a good anvil unit, but are a bit expensive, rather take the eternal guard.

Geep thanks for all the tips! The Dragon is a good option and I actually want to take both the Wardancer Highborn as well as a Dragon mounted Highborn. (check the list below)


4000 points Vs. Orc and Goblins V2.0

Highborn, Forest Dragon, Gw, Oaken Armour, Amaranthine Brooch.
Spellweaver L4, Wand of Wych Elm, 1 scroll
Spellweaver L4, Calaingor's Stave, 3 scrolls
Wardancer Noble, Blades of Loec
Spellsinger L2, Staff of Sorcery
Branchwraith L1
Branchwraith L1, a Cluster of Radiants

5 Glade riders
5 Glade riders
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Wardancers, mus, champ
8 Wardancers, mus, champ
5 Wild riders, mus, stb
5 Wild riders, mus, stb
5 Wild riders, mus, stb
5 Wild riders, mus, stb
5 Waywatchers
1 Treeman
1 Great Eagle

As you can see, difference is made mainly in the characters. Still wanted to take the Wardancer Highborn, Blades of Loec, Amber Pendant, an Annoyance of Nettlings, but slots will not allow it. Dragon also swallows one hero slot up.

Now what about this list, is it better? Tried to implement as much suggestions as possible. Exept Glade guard and Treekin, because I would have to cut a lot of other units out.

I will challange my friend next weekend when he's back from holiday, he just loves high point battles, but I don't think he has ever played 4000 points. (He sure has got the models for it, maybe even double what I'm suggesting, not balanced ofcourse)

[Hillbilly Carl]

Glade guard in my experience are much more effective against large blocks than glade riders. 10 shots instead of 5 and the increased strength at close range means that you will kill twice as many. In a block of 20 orcs you need to kill 5 to cause a panic test which is average with 20 glade guard shots at close range. Hitting on 3 means 13 will hit and wounding on 4 means 6.5 will wound. Light armour and shields against S4 means that they will save 1 in 6. That leaves 5 dead. Even if it isn't a panic test (or they pass the panic test) it means that they are one rank fewer and next turn you only need to kill 4 for a panic test. Concentrated shooting can also take out any small units stupid enough to get in your range which forces your opponent to think really hard about where he moves them. With what you have now for shooting (19 S3 bows) his forces are going to get into combat largely intact. Glade riders have their place but I think they will either quickly run out of targets that they can kill or be killed themselves. They are however good for flushing out fanatics and then shooting them.

Units of glade guard also give your enemy something to focus on and march toward. This is a good thing because how you deploy them will dictate how the battle proceeds. Most of your units are support units which are best suited to flanking manouvers. By having your opponent march toward you you are also forcing him to open up his flanks. If you have no shooting or tangible targets for him he can bunker down around his war machines and force you to attack on his terms.

You could free up enough points for 24 glade guard by removing the level 1 upgrade from your branchwraiths and dropping 2 units of dryads. That would leave you with 11 combat units (12 including the dragonrider), 3 fast support units (eagle and glade riders), and 3 missile units. You would have 2 fewer power and dispel dice but you have 4 dispel scrolls and 6 of your units have magic resistance. Your bow shots per turn is also more than doubled to 39.

Of course it is up to you and the army you have certainly looks fun. Again, good luck and I can't wait to read a battle report!

This post has been edited by Hillbilly Carl on Aug 6 2009, 05:01 PM

[Glim]

The reason I don't take Glade guard is that they will not kill enough for their points, my opponent simply ignores them and will at most sent goblins or wolfriders their way. They get killed so easily, any magic spell will destroy them. They will (maybe) cause one panic check on a general Ld of 8 or 9. Plus my opponent often takes an extra rank and he certainly doesn't let his flanks be exposed.

I get your point for taking them, but versus Orcs and goblins I rather take the very unflufffy dogs of war small cannon. cheaper and does the same thing only from round one.

Long range 20 shots, 10 hit on 4s, 3.3 wound on 5s, 2.2 die after armour saves of 5+.
2.2 plus close range 5.5 is 7.7 wounds times 6 points per Orc is 46 points you killed while they whaaagh! and overrun your 240 point archer unit. Not that they will, there are more important units to go after.

Don't get me wrong, against a lot of opponents they are a great support unit. If they always shot S4, then I would consider them this time.

[Geep]

I like your latest army Glim, but I personally would take the Stone of the Crystal Mere on the dragon rider, probably in place of other armour. Yes it can break and be a waste of points, but you have a good chance of shrugging off a lot of bolt thrower shots- And you are likely to be on the receiving end of a huge number of these if your opponent likes to spam them. I'll also restate I like the terror/ wraithstone combo- I haven't used it myself yet, but statistically it seriously increases the damage terror can do.

I doubt glade guard will make their points back in this battle as well. Unless you have a hill to stick to (meaning you lose our mobility and usually short range bonuses) you'll find an army of this size getting in the way of itself.

[Glim]

So I've spoken with my friend and he accepted my challenge. We will do battle in about a month (exact data will follow)

I really like my last list, but I've come up with another. I always like to have two lists prepared. A non magic list seems to be out of the question since I apparently don't have the models to make a balanced 4000 points non-magic list. Well here's my new list, enjoy.

Highborn, Great Weapon, light armour, shield
Helm of the Hunt, Amber Pendant, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways.

Spellweaver L4, WoWE, 1 scroll
Spellweaver L4, the Rhymer's Harp, 1 scroll
Spellsinger L2, Staff of Sorcery
Branchwraith L1
Branchwraith L1, aCoR

5 Glade riders
5 Glade riders
5 Glade riders
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
27 Eternal guard, Full Com, Warbanner
8 Wardancer, mus, chp
8 Wardancer, mus, chp
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Wildriders, mus, stb
5 Waywatchers, chp
1 Treeman


The Highborn and the Spellweaver with the Harp go into the Eternal Guard, 7 broad, 3 ranks. Am not really sure about HotH, maybe replace it with aAoN. It's a lot of points in one unit, but with the Moonstone the unit should see combat. Maybe this list is a little risky, but it has potential I think. Still have 2 Hero slots open.

[Geep]

I agree Helm of the Hunt isn't best in a slow moving unit like EG.

Such a large EG unit will suffer badly to the O&G artillery (assuming your opponent doesn't take too many chariots, black orcs or boar boyz). The Rhymer's Harp will help a bit, but other than that you really need Ariel's Blessing (and to hope your opponent doesn't dispel it in his turn).
Vs goblins this unit will slaughter anything (squigs may be a slight issue), but against Orcs you'll have a bit more trouble.

Overall I find most of the list good, although I'd consider trading in one Glade rider unit to take Great Eagles (lure out fanatics more easily). I like glade riders, but unless you're playing on a huge board you'll struggle to make the best of fast cavalry manouverability in a game this size- the O&G player will probably have no gaps in his line, with back up units behind.

[Glim]

I figured the HotH isn't that great, but it makes the Highborn a bit more offensive. I was thinking about trading a Glade rider unit for another Waywatcher unit to lay more pressure on him. He really hates Great Eagles and those could attract a lot of firing and magic away from other units.

Guess I like my former list a lot more, but hey, this is a good option. I was also thinking about using the eternal guards in a 2250 point battle against Dwarfs. Possibly with a Highborn carrying the Harp. Have to think about that list.

[Glim]

I'm getting kinda in doubt about taking an Eagle. Maybe I should take three horses for my mages. Or I could let one of the mages ride an Eagle. What do you guys think?

Edit: I am also thinking about changing the GW on the highborn for a spear.

This post has been edited by Glim on Aug 24 2009, 09:15 PM

[Hillbilly Carl]

Definately mount your spellsingers/weavers on horses, that way you have the option to put them into the glade rider units for some added protection. It does make them easier to hit with missiles when they are alone but it also gives them more manouverability which is important since a lot of our spells have a range. I wouldn't mount them on an eagle though, an elven steed gives them a 6+ armour save and up to 18" of movement which should be enough.

Eagles have their place but if you use it you have to be willing to lose it. It has to be expendable which means you shouldn't mount your lord-level magic user on it.

Which list are you talking about getting rid of the highborn's GW? If it is the first one (dragon highborn) then I say go for it but if it is the second one (foot highborn)then DON'T DO IT!

[Glim]

oh forgot to mention it is the first list that I will be playing with, the dragon just offers so much.

Three horses got much to offer, I agree.

[Glim]

we keep postponing, battle is going to happen this October. But I've come up with a new list that I would like to share with you.

Dragon mounted Highborn, shield, Oaken Armour, Fimbulwintershard, Sword of Might.

Wardancer Highborn, Blades of Loec, Amber Pendant, an Annoyance of Nettlings.

Spellweaver L4, steed, Wand of Wych Elm, scroll.

Battle Standard Bearer, Amarinth Brooch.

Spellsinger L2, 2x Scroll.

Branchwraith L1

Branchwraith L1, a Cluster of Radiants

1x 5 Glade riders
6x 8 Dryads
1x 17 Eternalguard (core) full command, warbanner.
1x 7 wardancers, mus, champ.
5x 5 Wildriders, mus, stb.
1x 5 Waywatchers
1x 1 Treeman

0 points left

the BSB goes in the Eternal guard and the rest you can guess I think. Was thinking about putting the L2 in there as well.