Title: Dark Emissary
Silly Dragon Elf the Third - June 17, 2007 05:23 PM (GMT)
Don't know if anyone has played with or against or even heard of the dark emissary but his a hero choice from the dogs of war range, only available to the 'evil' armies.
He is basically a lv4 wizard with his own lore of magic that counts as a hero and rare choice (i think).
The reason why i bring this up is becuase i fear that my regular opponent (dark elfs) will soon be getting him to use against me in 2500pts. I fear it becuase it may mean i will stop playing him soon.
Let me explain, all the time i am against magic heavy armies. Whether it be necromancers summoning their horde or dark elfs destructive magic. I am against on average (2000pts+) 11 power dice. With this new addition to his army (the dark emissary) he hopes to get 17 power dice. I can barely manage with 11!
It P***** me off becuase i don't want to have dispell scrolls and mage hunters all the time. I want to equip my lv4 with other than wand of the wynch elm! (or better no mage at all!) His new lv4 will mean he will have 2 lv4s and 1 lv2 or maybe 2 lv2s too!
I am just sick of the same games now. I can almost predict every game what items and characters his going to take. Its all about his magic phase and its getting tiresome.
I feel he is going to start power gaming and if so i will most likely refuse to play against him. Not becuase i will lose but becuase theres more to the game then stocking up on bloody power dice!
But it cannot be stopped so i ask, what can i do to battle this new threat? Against 17 PD what should i take? Lots of scrolls? His good at hiding his mages and positioning the units so i can't reach him easy. Loves buildings. Has anyone been against this dark emissary? if so can you enlighten me with your experience and such.
He has said i can take the rival Truthslayer if i want. A lv3 mage apparantly never heard of him. But i don;t want dogs of war, i mean why would Wood elfs use him? They would kill him before they talk to him. Plus i don't want magic. If i had it my way our games would be magic free.
Nightstalker - June 17, 2007 10:36 PM (GMT)
These are the rules for the Dark Emissary, The Truthsayer and Fen beasts
Highborn Sycath - June 17, 2007 10:48 PM (GMT)
best hero level character ever. extra 4 magic levels for a hero slot? HELL YEAH.
yeah, he and my tzeentch beasts are like tight.
The one thing that comes to mind when fighting him is to take a drycha list, and have units of dryads appear in forests to take the mages down. That, or using waywatchers. Just take 2 units of waywatchers and have them set up right outside the building ( so he cant see you) and take him out fast.
The problem with the dark emmisary is that he has no armour what so ever, and only a 5+ wardsave to protect him. A couple of well aimed shots should take him down.
To combat the whole army, theres a couple of tricks you can use. The two I mentioned above work niceley, another one is to put a noble with moonstone of the hidden ways into a unit ( if the mages are in units take something like eternal guard, if not put the noble in wardancers or something like that) and then when setting up terrain make sure you put plenty of forests on the table ( I beleive you get three, so try to put them near the center, two on on side, on on the other, or one on each side and one closer to the center) and then use your free forest to teleport the unit next to his mage, that along with 2 units of waywatchers should take him out easily.
That, or you could ask him nicely not to take it. Explain how the way he plays is really putting you off the game etc, and how its getting boring and your starting to hate it. If hes your friend then maybe he will change.
Geep - June 18, 2007 09:47 AM (GMT)
In the original albion campaign truthsayers and dark emissaries cost no points (and I don't think took up slots) but if you got one your opponent automatically got the other.
Truthsayers aren't too bad- they can hold their own in an average combat unit, but don't fit the Wood elf combat style very well (unless you go Eternal guard heavy). There magic is average.
I agree with Highborn Sycath about talking to your opponent- maybe agree to a game with no magic, or a maximum number of magic levels. If he'd then concentrate on shooting have no more than 1/3 of each army (in models) equipped with ranged weapons (artillery counts as 1 model).
Silly Dragon Elf the Third - June 18, 2007 12:05 PM (GMT)
Thanks for that Nightstalker :happy: I have been looking for that on the net for some time now and failing.
Well looking at the stats and such they look basically the same only one more offensive than the other (oh and that just had to be his...). But i don't want a Truthslayer! I don't want to use 265pts on something like that.
What about if i give him a taste of his own medicine? Power game just once. its 2500pts we normally play, so...2 treemen, eternal guard with BSB etc. As much magic as i can fit and then go minimum on core say just dryads and then max out on my specials...say a horde of wardancers... Great stag in treekin unit? i don't know how can WE power game? come on tell me. But that isn't really in the spirit of the game eh?
Yeah i'll talk to him about it.
I haven't got enough Forest spirits for using Drycha yet. 2 WR, 3 Dryad, 1 treekin, 2 treemen, 1 branchwraith. Though it sounds like a good idea. Waywtachers? you know if he gets first turn its splat (buildings give you 360 line of sight and you measure from the edge of the building for ranged stuff like shooting etc (never understood that)).
Geep - June 18, 2007 03:55 PM (GMT)
Remember if your opponent wants to 'power game' it's his choice- if he prefers it over friendlier, 'fluffier' lists you'll have to come to a compromise rather than just give the ultimatum of 'stop power gaming or we stop playing'.
I think it's a good idea for you to power game back- maybe you'll both even like it... (*waits for SDETT's retort against power gamers...*)
How to do it with wood elves? I'd say lots of Treemen, Dryads, Wardancers, Wild riders (the magic resistance of the last two should really help). Try not to be so defensive for a change (even if it proves not effective at least it's variety).
Silly Dragon Elf the Third - June 18, 2007 05:56 PM (GMT)
|I think it's a good idea for you to power game back- maybe you'll both even like it... (*waits for SDETT's retort against power gamers...*)|
I will say nothing on the matter. You know how i feel about it lets leave it like that.
Wait is it his choice? Its not from his army book so i can say no to it? But i probably wont.
No matter i'll get my own back...if he can use the Dark E then for my High elfs i can use Teclis! We have an agreement that i will not use him at all with my HE but maybe that'll change...
I play aggresive already. He out shoots me and out magics me so i have to go to him. I am tempted to leave my Glade Gurad at home on later games and play with more close combat....*remembers the old days of 2000pts of pure combat (from me)* now that was cool.
Servant of Isha - June 18, 2007 10:40 PM (GMT)
I can't see how he gets 17 power dice, I can only make out 15. 2 base, 4 for emissary, 4 for high sorcerous, 2x2 for 2 level 2s and 1 for the darkstar cloak, which is 2+4+4+2+2+1= 15.
And with High elves, you can beat that.
Teclis and 3 level 2 mages, jewel of dusk and the banner of sorcery. That's 14+D3 power dice, a minimum of 15 but up to 17 total. If you change one of those mages for the truthsayer that's 15+D3. You also have two very nice bound spells - fury of khaine and Vaul's Unmaking. The Dark elves only have one bound spell worthing of note (which is doombolt, the D6 S5 magic missile).
In addition to JotD and the two rings, I'd get a dispel scroll, and then the 3rd mage with Seer, channeler (and if you've got spare points then silver wand). This last mage will be for you to pick a really important high level spell that you can chuck 4 dice at, choosing a different lore from Teclis (as he has all the spells from his list and is much better if you have the choice). Alternatively, have two dispel scrolls and channeler, and just hope you get a nice spell. The Last option is a pair of power stone and silver wand. 3 spells mean's you'll get at least something good most of the time, and those power stones will give your magic phase even more of a punch!
You're spending a lot of points on characters here (1170, not including the banner of sorcery which is on a unit), but it'll be worth it for one game just to see the look on his face when you out-magic him.
If you do a 3000pts battle, think about adding Alarielle the everqueen - level 4 and can cast one of her spells as a bound spell level 5, even if she's already cast that spell normally that magic phase, and she knows all the high magic spells and all the life spells (which used to be brilliant, though life is rather mediocre now). Also, with her maiden guard you've got one tough unit (unbreakable, +1 to hit (which can be given to any unit within 12" of alarielle instead of the guards if you want) in high elf shooting and combat phases, once per battle can shoot twice or attack twice in a phase (which can be nasty - 2 attacks each fighting in 3 ranks WS5 with +1 to hit). It's not a common set up (it's very pricy for what it does), but I like it personaly.
so in a 3000pts game you'd have Teclis, Alarielle, Truthsayer and 3 mages, for a total of 21+D3 power dice and 3 bound spells. Nasty.
And that's just magic. You'll be having 6 bolt throwers in that 3000pts game, along with some archers. Which you'll of course combine with curse of arrow attraction... a perfect spell for one of your lesser mages to cast while Teclis rips in with the damaging spells.
Anyway.... that's only if you want to fight fire with fire (or magic with magic in this case). It might be worth it for one game, but it's not exactly a long term strategy, is it?
I'd suggest just going relatively heavy magic, but focussing on defensive set ups. Choose high magic with everybody, and cast drain magic at every opportunity. You can probably do well with 3 level 2 mages, leaving the archmage at home. This is still quite a chunk on mages, but not to any extreme and less that he'll spend. Have each mage cast drain magic on 3 dice in each phase (you'll have 9 power dice in your pool with Jewel of the dusk, and if you want to cast another spell then take the banner of sorcery). You'll have bound spells (which he'll want to dispel, especially vaul's unmaking. With that, target his bound spell item first (if he brings the wand of karaidon (or whatever the doombolt item is), then the darkstar cloak etc. If he dispells it that's less dice or scrolls to go towards stopping drain magic. If he doesn't, that weakens his offensive power.
Consider the magic resistance items, as magic resistance is conferred from heroes to their unit. If he targets your main units anyway, if not then it might not be much use. Both the Amulet of Fire (magic resistance 1) and Amulet of Purifying Flame (-3 to casting rolls against that unit) can be useful if he does target your main units. If not, trust to your dice and dispel scrolls.
In the larger games (3000pts if you ever play it), consider the staff of sorcery (one of the most overlooked common items). You get it at 40pts rather than 50, and combined with your high elf +1 to dispel gives you a +2 dispel total. In larger battles where you have a lot of dispel dice to play with, this is really useful. For example in that manic 3000pts, you'd have 12 dispel dice, which when combined with the +2 to rolls and drain magic will really put a stop to him.
Whatever you do, make sure you're selective with your dispels - make sure you dispel what is really needed! He may have loads of power dice, but it may well be that not all of them are used to their best.
Servant of Isha.
macknight - June 19, 2007 02:56 AM (GMT)
yeah i play both DE and WE, and know them well, only 15 PD i could come up with as well at most plus whatever stone bound spells ; your opponent is playing in his strength which is magic, shooting and speed, u should play to yours strengths in these battles.
start with 2 treemen with BSB running nearby, WW are quite use less against heavy magic, use lots of GG as they have a better range over his shooters other than RBT; use WD with moonstone noble as suggested to get into combat fast plus they have magic resistance.
good luck in next battle and always ask for rules quarry and why total dices come to such#, as players often miscalculate, misread their book or blantant cheat. :smile:
Servant of Isha - June 19, 2007 08:34 AM (GMT)
While intentional cheating isn't likely to come up between friends (though it could), misaprehensions are very common. Do you have the Dark Elf book? If not, consider getting it.
Servant of Isha.
Glim - July 13, 2007 06:39 PM (GMT)
Does anyone know more about Albion?
a friend of mine is busy creating unit (own design) but he hasn't got a storyline yet.
With your help I might be able to help him with that.
Nightstalker - July 13, 2007 07:38 PM (GMT)
Albion was a campaign fought back when the Dark elves were released last edition, It was thought to be the location of another of the Gateways of the old ones, and as such a place of great magical power. In addition many items forged back in the prime of the dwarves were also thought to be hidden on the island. It's the closest thing to Britain/Ireland in the warhammer world (see Blood bowl:Death match for descriptions of the people, also the Story in Giantslayer revolves around the time that the warhammer world went to war over albion)