All discussion on how to beat High Elves is to be posted in this thread. The best tactics will be amalgamated into this post.
Right this topic seems alittle empty. Since i play High Elves and Wood Elves i think i can put forward some pointers.
Right first things first, the always strikes first. (sorry had to).
Every High Elf in their list has always strikes first meaning you charge they strike first. This can be used with equipment like great weapons making an Elf with +2 strength strike first instead of last, ouch. Units like Spearelves that fight in three ranks and now ASF (Always Strikes First) are fairly deadly and at 9pts each! Less than what they were last book and then without ASF. Many players now deploy their spears in a front row of 6-7 models wide and 3 ranks deep. I know i use 18 models for my spears. This maximises the amount of attacks they can have. Get a tough or high armour save unit against them and they wont do much...not really. In my experience a unit of 18 spears has taken on and defeated a unit of grave guard that were 20 strong. I had full command and so did he. He used hand weapon and shield so T4 and 3+ save should be good. But its like i said at the time. Would you rather 1 S10 attack or 10 S3 attacks? Think about it when against a larger unit.
There are other units that are certainly more deadly then the spears though. Like the WS6 S5 A2 swordmasters ASF. Or the S6 white lions (many a cold one, black knight has fallen to their axes). Even Archers are better. As for me my opponent always hit them with dire wolves or dark riders as they are expensive but now he thinks twice about that tactic and has more or less abandoned it.
Remember with ASF is that is does not affect the eagles, dragons, steeds, lions only the Elf.
I think the main strength with ASF is that you allow the opponent to charge you and in turn beat them in combat. They flee and you just don't catch them. BUT! Now its your turn and you can charge them giving you more chance to run them down or run them off the board. This opens up a whole new way of positioning troops and battle plans. Something i haven't got used to yet as my swordmasters frequently go on killing corsairs and then find themselves in the centre of all his most powerful troops...oh no.
The Amber Pendant takes away all these bonuses for you so its an obvious choice to take when fighting Asur.
The High Elf mages are very formidable and with a great selection of magic items for both offense and defense they can become very good...but also very expensive. A level 1 Mage with no items or mounts is 100pts. Now a level 2 battle wizard with no items or mounts is 100pts...so what do they get? High Magic. This is a very good lore of magic as every mage always knows the spell Drain Magic! With even just one casting this spell has the ability to shut down enemy magic phases. It raises all casting values of spells by 3 and is cumulative if used again by other Mages. So a spell that is cast on a 4+ (50% chance with 1 dice) is now 7+ (0% chance with 1 dice unless you have +1 to cast) Thats a big difference. Theres also spells like Vauls unmaking which lets you spy out enemy magic items and destoy one of them (like law of gold in lore of metal only thats a chance you destroy it this is certain, if cast). Theres also flames of the phoenix which just loves zombies or any troops of T3. Let it boild up in strength (every turn +1S to the spell, remains in play) it can take out any unit...and as it affects every model in the unit its a great way to kill enemy wizards or unit champions. Look out for this spell as it can lay carnage to any glade guard, eternal guard or even forest spirit..flaming you know. I'd like to add that one tactic i like to do is casting drain magic first. It presents a choice for the opponent, dispell it or leave it to make my life and his harder for casting. Lets say he dispells it thats 2 or more dispell dice gone and we all know armies tend to have more power than dispell dice so i can then cast magic missiles etc with less chance of them being dispelled. Say he lets it through. Then i put on my biggest smile and say thats my magic phase done. It makes his life harder and only his then. Ok i don't cast my other spells and i only do this if i have like 6 power dice. But it annoys my opponent alot as its a hard choice to make.
Not really that great in my opinion but look out for any unbarded steeds with a Noble holding the star lance. Gives him S7 on the charge so is a very powerful (and a surprise with its unbarded speed charge out of the unit) way to take out chariots.
Now with the lack of war machines we struggle against anything monstrous that a treeman can't take on. Now the Sun Dragon weakest of all 3 different types is not that great with only a 5+ scaly skin. For a dragon thats weak and only S2 breath attack. Ok the dragon mages can be very powerful but everytime i have used one its died early without doing much. Alot of points here and the Mage riding will not be very well protected. Now then the Moon Dragon which is the normal stats line dragon...then the Star Dragon. 6 attacks at WS7 and S7 or something like that haven't got book at hand then add on the princes attacks and you got a hard hitter! Not much i can say to use to take this out. An obvious choice would be Treeman Ancient with annoyance but even thats risky.
A very nasty new addition to the army. Everyone laughed and joked about the Tiranoc chariot (which is still useful as a suppor charger and a faster chariot) but were then silenced by the roar of the white lions. 2 White Lions with WS5 S5 and 2 attacks and then 2 crew attacks at WS5 S6 and then impact D6 S5 hits. This can break the line of swordsmen on its own! Still its only a High Elf chariot meaning T4 and a 4+ armour save. Glade Guard could take it on if not just make sure you charge it first with something like Dryads. Be very careful against these as i have seen 2 been used as a tag team.
Even though i have said the spears are 9pts this is the cheapest unit with archers being 12pts and special choices being 15pts least. They can quickly eat up the points allowance and make a small (but elite) force.
There is something which i personaly believe is more deadly then ASF. Its the layout of the Core, Special and Rare choices (characters stay the same). Normally below 2000pts we have to take 2 core up to 3 special and 1 rare. High Elves do this, 1 Core, up to 6 special and up to 2 rare. Thats half as much core and twice as much special and rare slots. Meaning at 1500pts all i need is a unit of spears say 10 if i want to be evil is 90pts and fills my minimum core! The rest of 1410pts can be used on my elite troops or characters (obviously still need one character to be general). So when going up against High Elves you will typically be taking on an infantry based elite army.
So what to do?
Shoot. They are Elves and don't have the strong forest spirits on their side so most things (i say this as there is great eagles at T4) are T3 and have relativly low armour.
Do what you do best. Use your speed to get into fights only you want to fight and pick apart that elite army bit by bit.
Hope that helps.
|QUOTE (Silly Dragon Elf the Third @ Sep 23 2008, 12:53 PM)|
Now with the lack of war machines we struggle against anything monstrous that a treeman can't take on. Now the Sun Dragon weakest of all 3 different types is not that great and only T5 and 5+ scaly skin. For a dragon thats weak and only S2 breath attack. Ok the dragon mages can be very powerful but everytime i have used one its died early without doing much. Alot of points here and the Mage riding will not be very well protected. Now then the Moon Dragon which is the normal stats line dragon...then the Star Dragon. 7 attacks at WS7 and S7 or something like that haven't got book at hand then add on the princes attacks and you got a hard hitter! Not much i can say to use to take this out. An obvious choice would be Treeman Ancient with annoyance but even thats risky.
Sun Dragons are S5 and are T6, Star Dragons have 6 attacks.
You see i should have known that :uhhhh: . Sorry peeps will edit it.