There have been quite a few trys at creating wood elf warbands for mordheim, and I've used quite a few for inspiration. The problem with most of them is generally one of two things. They are either a) full of complicated rules or b)too powerful/unbalanced, and often both. Balancing elves in general is hard, and both the GW made ones (shadow warriors and dark elves) are considered un-official in tournaments since they are too powerful in the late game. Elves have high stats alround, and tend to get exceptional shooters. Apart from elves, only Reiklanders can get henchmen with BS 5 (as far as I remember), and the elves also tend to be great at everything else.

So anyway, here is my try at it. This is the first draft, so I want any comments and suggestions you have, especially if you've played mordheim quite a lot before (and even if you haven't). I've treid to keep it interesting, without too many unit-specific special rules (thus no shadow dances of loec....too hard to balance and remember in-game). The stuff in Italics are designers notes I@ve added in to explain things. Here we are:



Special Rules
Distrust: The Asrai show very little trust to anyone non-elven, save perhaps the bretonnians, with whom they have had some contact. They may not ally with any other warband except for wood elves, high elves and bretonnians.

Excellent Sight: All Elves in an Asrai warband can spot Hidden enemies from twice as far away as other warriors (i.e. twice their initiative in inches)

Forest Walkers: The Asrai are completely at home in the forest, and may move through areas of wooded terrain without penalty. In addition, before any warband is deployed, the Asrai player may place 2 areas of woodland on the table, each no larger than 3” in diameter. These may not be within 12” of each other.

Silent Death: The Asrai prefer to stay hidden until the time is ready to strike. They may never use any form of blackpowder weapon; nor will they wear heavy armour of any type except ithilmar.

Fragile: The Asrai use the maximum characteristics for elves as detailed in the main rule book; however they may never exceed a toughness of 3. Elves may use the strength list if they have the Powerful Build special skill.


The strength skills restriction is a constant with all elves in the GW system. The restriction on toughness is a harsh one, but one that quite a few experimental warbands have included, to try and tone down the elves in their late game (when most others have increased to toughness 4 at least on some warriors). Excellent sight and the restriction on blackpowder weapons are also standards with elves, though the restriction on heavy armour is added in. Forest walkers just makes sense with wood elves, and the terrain represents the fact that the asrai would be fighting on the outskirts of mordheim, and allows tree singing to be one of the spells.


Choice of Warriors
An Asrai warband must include a minimum of 3 models. You have 500 Gold Crowns which you can use to recruit your initial warband. Maximum number of warriors in the warband is 12.

Heroes
Waywatcher: Each Asrai warband must have one Waywatcher: no more, no less!

Spellsinger: Your warband may include a single Spellsinger.

Wardancer: Your warband may include a single Wardancer.

Scouts: Your warband may include up to 2 Scouts.

Henchmen
Glade Guard: Any number of models may be Glade Guard.

Wardancer Initiates: Your warband may include up to 3 Wardancer Initiates.


Starting Experience
Waywatcher starts with 20 experience.
Spellsingers start with 12 experience.
Wardancers start with 12 experience.
Scouts start with 8 experience.
All Henchmen start with 0 experience.


Asrai equipment lists

Asrai equipment list
Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Staff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Asrai Blade-staff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc

Missile Weapons
Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Longbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Elf Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc

Armour
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc

Miscellaneous
Elven Cloak . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 gc
Talismanic Tattoos* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 gc
Healing Herbs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Hunting Arrows . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc
Familiar** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20+D6 gc

* Wardancers only
** Spellsinger only


Elven Cloak (60 + D6x10 gc / Rare 11)
Being from Athel Loren, the Asrai have access to items that are rarely seen by other races.

Talismanic Tattoos (30 + 2D6 gc / Rare 8)
These give a special save of 6+ against any attack, which can be combined with the skills dodge or step-aside if appropriate.

Healing Herbs (20 + 2D6 gc / Rare 6)
Many of the Asrai are master herbalists, and they find it easier to acquire such herbs than other races.

Familiar (20 + 2D6 gc / Rare 8)
Familiars allow a wizard to re-roll one failed roll to cast a spell each turn. The cost must be paid even if the rare roll is failed.

Asrai Blade-staff (20 + D6 gc / Rare 8)
Strength: As User (+1 if charging)
Two-handed, +1 attack, Parry.


The +1 strength when charging for the blade-staff represents the offensive capabilities of the weapon if used right. Not that the weapon not only represents the eternal guard weapons, but also those used by a couple of the direct order wardancers... wardancers are going to be the characters using these weapons most in the warband, and it seems to fit. Are Talismanic tattoos too good when combined with dodge and step aside? Considering the fact that wardancers can never get any other kind of save, and need to get stuck into combat to be effective, since they have no missile weapons.


Combat Shooting Academic Strength Speed Special
Waywatcher / / / / /
Spellsinger / / /
Wardancer / / /
Scout / / /

ok, the stupid formatting took away the spacing.... All of them have speed and special, spellsinger has Acedemic, Wardancer has combat, Scout has shooting, and waywatcher has combat, shooting and Acedemic.




Heroes

1 Waywatcher
75 Gold Crowns to hire
“Masters of concealment, Waywatchers spend much of their time alone, perfecting their skills. From time to time, they may lead the inhabitants of Athel Loren, guiding with expert knowledge of the land”

Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 5 3 3 1 6 1 9

Weapons/Armour: The Waywatcher may be equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the Asrai equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6” of the Waywatcher my use his Leadership characteristic when taking any leadership tests.

Stealthy: Waywatchers are masters at going unseen, and can creep forward undetected. A Waywatcher may deploy 6” further onto the battlefield than other warriors and may start the battle Hiding.



0-1 Spellsinger
50 Gold Crowns to hire
“Elves have always been a magical race, and some of those who live within the confines of Athel Loren develop a certain affinity with it, able to call apon the powers of nature to defend themselves and strike their foes”

Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 3 3 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour: Spellsingers may be equipped from the Asrai equipment list, though they may not be given any form of armour.

SPECIAL RULES
Wizard: A spellsinger is a wizard, and may use the Athel Loren Magic list.



0-1 Wardancer
55 Gold Crowns to hire
“Wardancers move with an otherworldly grace, dancing among their enemies with lightning speed and reflexes”
Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 5 3 3 3 1 6 1 8

Weapons/Armour: Wardancers may be equipped from the Asrai equipment list, though they may never use a missile weapon, any form of armour or wear an elven cloak.

SPECIAL RULES
Expert Bladesman: If a wardancer is using a sword or an Asrai blade-staff, then she may re-roll all missed attacks in the hand-to-hand phase of the turn she charges.



0-2 Scouts
40 Gold Crowns to hire
“The more skilled and adventurous of the Glade Guard take up the role of scouts, infiltrating close to the enemy, ready to sow discord and confusion…”

Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 3 4 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour: Scouts may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Asrai equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Stealthy: Scouts are experts at going unseen, and can creep forward undetected. A Scout may deploy 6” further onto the battlefield than other warriors and may start the battle Hiding.



Henchmen

Glade Guard
35 Gold Crowns to hire
“The glade guard make up the bulk of the Asrai armies, and much is the same with small warbands. Expert archers, they can target enemies with unsurpassed skill and accuracy”

Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 3 4 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour: Glade Guard may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Asrai equipment list.



0-3 Wardancer Initiates
45 Gold Crowns to hire
“Aspiring wardancers can be almost as deadly as their mentors…”
Profile M WS BS S T W I A LD
5 4 3 3 3 1 5 1 8


Weapons/Armour: Wardancer Initiates may be equipped from the Asrai equipment list, though they may never use a missile weapon, any form of armour or wear an elven cloak.

SPECIAL RULES
Expert Bladesman: If a wardancer is using a sword or an Asrai blade-staff, then she may re-roll all missed attacks in the hand-to-hand phase of the turn she charges.


Ok, you're probably thinking "Glade Guard WS 3? Spellsinger WS & BS 3?" Well, you probably are if you haven't encountered elves in mordheim yet. Elves are alround too good if you have them as they should be. I wanted to keep them excellent in what they're good at, but I decided to specialise things. If something is meant for shooting, it has a lower WS than it would normally. Originally the spellsinger had BS 4, but since I gave her a shooty style spell in the list, I decided that was too good.

The main question here is, can I get away with the waywatcher at BS 5? Starting at BS 5 is very powerful, but it is a waywatcher.


Wood elf Skills

Fey
Hostile magic spells will not affect the Elf on a D6 roll of a 4+. This includes any kind of prayer and/or ritual.

Infiltrate
This skill is exactly the same as the skaven skill of the same name.

Hide in Shadows
An enemy warrior attempting to detect this warrior when he is Hidden must halve his Initiative before measuring the distance.

Asrai Archery
This skill allows the warrior to ignore the -1 penalty for moving and shooting. Note that this won’t combine with any skill that allows the warrior to run and shoot; i.e. you cannot run and shoot without penalty by a combination of skills.

Sniper
If Hidden, a warrior with this skill may shoot or cast spells and still remain Hidden. If his target is not immediately taken out of action by the Sniper they get to test against their Initiative in an attempt to spot him. A successful test means that the Sniper has been spotted and is no longer hidden.

Powerful Build
The warrior is strongly built for an Elf, and is capable of feats of strength not often seem among the people of Athel Loren. A warrior with this skill may choose strength skills from now on. This skill may not be taken by Spellsingers, and only two members of the warband may have this skill at any one time.


most of these are the same as the shadow warrior skills, but I thought taht was one area that the shadow warrior warband was well designed in. I just added fey and asrai archery to the mix, and took out master of runes.



The Lore of Athel Loren (mordheim version...plus, each spell has a Lost Glade alternative name! (really random...)


The Asrai use magic that represents their intrinsic link with their forest home. Many of the spells are linked with nature in some way, and are similar in effect to the prayers of Taal.


D6 Result

1 Tree singing (aka the Lost Glade) Difficulty 7
This spell affects 1 area of wooded terrain on the board, and can be used in one of two ways. Only small areas of terrain may be affected, and the players should agree before hand which areas are eligible targets for this spell. A good rule is anything 3-4” in diameter or less.

Firstly, this spell can be used to move the woodland; trees uproot themselves and briars snake across the ground to plant roots elsewhere. The terrain piece is moved D3+1 inches in a direction chosen by the Asrai player.

Secondly, this spell can be used to cause damage to enemy models within the terrain feature. All enemy models inside or touching the terrain feature take a S3 hit, as branches and brambles come alive and attack intruders.

2 Skin of Bark (aka protection of Sycath) Difficulty 8
The Spellsinger gains an armour save of 3+, which replaces her normal armour save. This save is modified by strength as normal, and lasts until the start of the spellsinger’s next shooting phase.

3 Gift of Life (aka Servant's gift) Difficulty 5
Any one model within 2” of the Spellsinger (including herself) may be healed. The warrior is restored to her full quota of wounds. In addition, if any friendly models within 2” are stunned or knocked down, they immediately come to their senses, stand up, and continue fighting as normal.

4 Wings of the Eagle (aka flight of foxtale) Difficulty 7
The Spellsinger may immediately move anywhere within 12” inches, including into base contact with an enemy, in which case she counts as charging. If she engages a fleeing enemy, in the close combat phase she will score 1 automatic hit and then her opponent will flee again (if he survives).

5 Spears of the Hunt (aka spears of Lindsay) Difficulty 8
This spell cannot be cast whilst in hand-to-hand combat. The spell summons D3+1 spears which the Spellsinger can use to shoot 1 enemy model. The spears have a range of 18”. Use the Spellsinger’s ballistic skill to determine whether the spears hit or not, but ignore movement, range and cover penalties. The spears cause one S4 hit each.

6 Summon Squirrels (aka minions of B-rad) Difficulty 7
With this spell, the Spellsinger summons forth dozens upon dozens of enraged squirrels. The furious rodents assault one enemy model within 12” of the Spellsinger, crawling inside the warrior’s clothing and armour, pelting him with nuts and causing numerous tiny bites and welts. The target suffers 2D6 strength 1 hits. No armour saves allowed.



Most of these are the same as current spells from other lores (e.g I just HAD to use summon squirrels! :biggrin: ), but then again magic is very hard to balance in this game. Especially tree singing, since it was completely new.





Well, there you go. I hope you liked it. (and I hope you didn't fall asleep reading through it all!)

One change I'm toying with is changing the scouts to 'scout initiates' (or perhaps leaving the name the same, and just change the flavour text a bit). Changing their BS to 3 and reducing thier points cost. If I change the name, I'll have to change the name of the wardancer hero to 'bladesinger' and the wardancer initiates to just wardancers, (though no change in stats or rules), since I don't want to kinds of initiates in the warband.

The idea behind the change is to actually haev a 'youngblood' style hero, reducing the points cost of the starting heroes slightly. If I do change them, they'll go down to 4 experence (normally youngblood types are exp 0, but since they have the stealthy skill, 4 sounds about right).

I didn't read through the whole post but I did catch a glimpse of the Summon Squirrels and Spears of the Hunt - both made me LOL. :lol:

I've played Mordheim before with Shadow Warriors, so making a list from the one you posted would be very awesome!

~ Lindsay ~

It is hard to read it all through.... in the original word document it is formatted so it's really easy to read, but I thought It'd take too long to re-do it all for this. Maybe I'll make all the titles bold at least; that should split it up some.

Edit: that's slightly easier to read now.

Thanks for reading even the parts that you did, and I would be very pleased to here of any experiences you have if you get to try it out.

Which reminds me, if anyone wants a copy of the word document (much MUCH easier to read...) then just say and I can e-mail it to you.

I like this- it looks pretty sound.
I agree the scouts should probably be some kind of youngblood style characters- all warbands seem to have some kind of youngblood. You could keep their name the same though- effectively they are waywatcher initiates.
The wardancer based characters are ridiculously powerful on the charge- maybe that's ok, but blade staves and expert bladesmen on a charge- ouch.

i dont play mordheim myself, but shoudlnt there be more henchmen?


i may just be crazy thoguh. it looks good from what i can see

I just modded the official Shadow Elves rules.

I like it overall, but isn't the spell list a tiny bit nasty? While I like the concepts, maybe tone them down somewhat. Perhaps the Spears could have a shorter range? They're very, very good-that many shots without any penalties...the other main one is the squirrels-ignoring armour saves is just too powerful. The original Skaven spell doesn't allow that, I don't think...if that's critical, raise the difficulty to at least 9...make that 10. It's just too much at 7.

Magic aside though, I think the list is pretty well balanced. The stat lines surprised me, if only because it's so much fairer than most Elf lists. I think the balancing of magic in Mordheim is difficult, especially with no Dispelling. Going to be using this, I think...

cheers
Eggs Maledict

EDIT: I JUST DOWLOADED THE OSTLANDERS RULES FROM THE SPECIALIST GAMES SITE-I SEE THE SQUIRRELS ARE TAKEN FROM THAT LIST. HOWEVER, I HOLD THAT THE SPELL IS A BIT GOOD; MIXING AND MATCHING MAGIC FROM VARIOUS LISTS IS HARD TO GET RIGHT...STILL, APOLOGIES FOR ASSUMING IT WAS FROM THE SKAVEN LIST-THERE IS A VERY SIMILAR SPELL.

necroposting here a little bit, but why would the asrai get involved in mordheim?

They probably wouldn't- maybe to take warpstone so the beastmen don't get it?
Anyway, the mordheim rules can be applied to any situation really, so it's good to have wood elf rules.