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 The Road So Far..., What do you think about the show?
Raven524
Posted: Jan 2 2012, 04:26 AM


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As the new year begins, I couldn't help thinking about the first part of Season 7 and the show in general. Of course, the SN marathon I had over the weekend helped a bit in that regard.

So I thought I'd start a topic to discuss our favorite show in general terms. You can discuss what you like or even what you dislike in here but no spoilers please so that everyone can join in. Also, this is not the place to discuss individual story or plot lines (we have two threads for that already--one for Sam and one for Dean).

So if you want to talk about your favorite episode or just list your reasons that you like or dislike the direction of the show, you can discuss it here. Just please keep all comment constructive and on topic.

As for me, I'm one of the fans who is enjoying the show this season (S7), maybe even more so than season 6 which for me was a transition year to get us to this new story arc. I absolutely love the Leviathan angle. The new monsters are smart, hard to kill and rather than destroying the world in one big battle, seem to be looking for ways to infiltrate and destroy from within.

I'm also enjoying that they are bringing in different myths from other countries--the Japanese Kitsune for one was really cool to see. I thought they missed the boat though on Osiris, he didn't come off as threatening to me at all and I did feel that the 'court scene' was a bit short. It happens sometimes and I don't feel it ruined the show overall--at least not for me. But its not an episode I'll rewatch often (I still don't watch bugs either--another place where I felt they missed the boat on the overall myth).

I would have to say my favorite episode for this season was How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters. The twist to the story was great and one I never saw coming. We meet Dick, a deliciously evil Leviathan who is played well by the actor selected. We have the boys and Bobby on the case and even though it didn't end well for Bobby, I still loved how the boys came up with a way to mount a rescue.

The writing this season to me has been fine. There were a few episodes that I feel missed the boat, but then there were many more moments that were written to each of the actor's strengths. Even Bobby was given a moment to finally put to rest how he felt about the boys when he proclaimed they were his boys and he they were hero's. The scene in the hospital where he gasped out the final 'idjits' still brings a tear to my eye and I'm afraid depending on how it turns out will be the final straw to be taken away from the boys.

The writers choosing to take the boys back to square one by removing all the support they have had over the past couple of years is good and bad IMO. It's good because we get more of the boys on the road together, solving the case and getting rid of the MOTW. I really found season 4 and part of season 5, where the boys weren't on the same page a bit frustrating since I do like the boys together. I understood the reason for it, but now I'm more than ready to see them back to facing things as a team like they did in S1-S3. So taking away the things that they had been comfortable with, even (sobs) if Bobby is somehow removed either permanently or is just sidelined for a bit, give the writers the opportunity to rebuild the brotherly bond and make it stronger. So far, I think they have made a good start and I hope to see them continue in that vein.

Of course I think the bad part of doing this means we lose some of what I enjoyed in the past. The credit card schemes that let them stay in the funky hotels are now replaced by abandoned buildings and old cabins. I miss the wacky rooms in a way and I hope we get them back some day. The supporting characters that added to the mix and gave us insight into the boys from an outsider POV are all but gone. Again, I miss Ellen, Rufus, Ash, Cas, Gabe and depending on what happens next, Bobby may join that list. I'm sure we'll get more characters at some point who may become just as important as these (afterall they were introduced as the series progressed too) but for now, these characters will be missed. Finally the worst part is the missing third character--the Impala. I know, it's just a car, but I have to hope they will find a way to bring her back at some point in the future. Dean driving a van just doesn't do it for me and Sam in the Charger, while a cool car, still it wasn't the Impala.

But overall, when I add the pluses to the minuses I come up with still one of the smartest written shows on TV. It hasn't hit the trap of many other long run series of becoming too formulatic. There are still surprises in store for us and a journey that keeps me tuning in each week to see what happens next. And yes, I enjoy those brotherly moments too.

So I'm not only looking forward to the second half of the season, but also am looking forward to as many years as we can get of this underappreciated show. cloud9.gif
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amandabutler
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 01:54 PM


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I dislike that both Bobby and Cas were killed off this season. By killing both of them, it has left giant holes in the show. Not sure if the show can recover from this mistake by the writers.
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Raven524
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 02:42 PM


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I do agree that they left holes because many fans, including me loved them. Yet, I remember back during the first 2 seasons, we didn't have Cas and Bobby wasn't in that many episodes. All we had were the two boys with a few regulars who pop in now and then.

To be honest, I can see why they did what they did. The angel/demon story arc came to a close so what role would Cas have now? Also as long as both Bobby and Cas were around, then the boys would continue to rely on them rather than themselves.

So while I really miss having them on the show and hope that we do get to see them again (after all this is Supernatural), I don't think it's the end of the world to not have them on the show. In fact, the last couple of episodes in this Season in my opinion were some of the best.

I guess the one true thing you can say about this show is that no one is safe unsure.gif smile.gif
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annan
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 03:24 PM


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the only episodes i didn't like in these 7 years were no exit, the kids are alright and let it bleed. it's not that i'm not for dean having a relationship with a woman, it's just that i thought that jo was just a child, and i was very glad that they kept here more like a sister thing...and lisa and ben...well frankly, for me, that story seemed illogical and forced. though i do realize in the end it was meant for dean to realize that normal family and hunting don't mix and he is who he is.....that actual time spent together seemed false to me and i found myself bored....i was extremely happy with the memory wipe. in all honesty if dean were allowed to settle down with anyone, i think it should be a fellow hunter.

other than those glitches....i love this show and how it's told and i look forward to a few more years...if possible laugh.gif
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Raven524
Posted: Feb 29 2012, 04:26 AM


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QUOTE
was extremely happy with the memory wipe. in all honesty if dean were allowed to settle down with anyone, i think it should be a fellow hunter.


Sorry, I know you didn't mean this as it kind of sounds, but it just struck me as funny, since he kinda already has--Sam (and no get your minds out of the gutter--I'm talking about settling down with another hunter in the platonic sense) 25r30wi.gif

I do agree though on the Lisa/Ben storyline. I understood why they did it but I too felt it was a bit forced and in the end, the memory wipe to me was also a good thing. I know others would have like to see more of it, but I really didn't see Lisa/Ben living the hunting life and I didn't see Dean staying away from it for long--I mean, how could it be two brother's hunting evil around the country with either of them having a 'family'. So I guess, I just don't see permanent relationships as being realistic for either of them.

But like many have said, I love the show even if I don't always like some parts as well as I like others. All in all, it's still one of the best shows on TV right now to me and I'll take all the years we can get with them smile.gif
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thurman
Posted: Feb 29 2012, 03:33 PM


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I feel the memory wipe was just putting the Dean/Lisa/ben relationship on pause. I can honestly see at the end of the series Dean "accidently' crossing paths with Lisa and them basically starting a relationship or in Deans case picking up where they left off.

Thing is when Dean was 20 he had a one night stand with Lisa. he was her 'type back then and apparently she never forgot him and he never forgot her. The writers always had her in Deans subconcious...thus the dream sequence in Dream a little dream of me. Also, why whenever he envisioned being happy is was always with Lisa/ben.

With the memory wipe all Dean has to do is cross paths with her in an 'accidental' meet cute moment. The attraction would obviously still be there and Dean KNOWS lisa. he would know how to win her over.

So I see Dean being totally fine at the end of the series. Hated Lisa and Ben mostly because they hated Sam and saw him as the reason for all fo Deans problems. But I also see Dean gravitating toward those kind of people. See castiel....

As to Sam I'd love it if Sam took the path of Niko Leandroes f the robb Thurman Cal Leandros books. Sam needs not a vampire girl friend but a werewolf...a pureblood who isn't a slave to the full moon. Wolves are very family oriented and loyal. She could/would understand Sam in a way Dean never could and she certainly wouldn't grieve something that tried to destroy one of her pack.

And all she would need to do is take iron pills or something to give her the suppliments she needed so she didn't have to kill. And Sher could be a cop...a monster hunting human monsters that prey on humans. And when Dean settles down with Lisa/Ben she nad Sam could team up to continue hunting.

Anyone write fanfics?
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Raven524
Posted: Feb 29 2012, 03:49 PM


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Well it is an interesting theory but I guess with this seasons message of Dean being a hunter first and the fact that there will always be a monster or two around, I personally don't see him settling down with anyone other than Sam. Besides, that's kind of the premise of the series in my opinion--its about two brothers and yes to some extent family, but we've seen how messed up 'families' get on this show. I just don't think either brother will want to bring someone else into their lives--even female hunters because people who get close to them get killed.

Depending on what they decided to do with the series once it is finished on TV (Jared, Jensen and Kripke have all said they'd like to do movies based on SN after the TV Show ends), I'm afraid it might not have the happy ending some of us would really like to see. But I'll worry about that when the time comes. (To this day, I still cry over Dargo being killed in the finale of Farscape--so other series have gone the non-traditional story book happy ending route)

In the meantime, in my opinion the only place you'll see what you've indicated Thurman is in fanfic, which actually there are a few out there already that are pretty good. Luckily we do have options to see what we might personally like via fanfic thanks to some wonderful and creative people out there. It's not something I'd be personally invested in as I enjoy the current dynamic of two brothers hunting evil together, but that's just me. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Raven524 on Feb 29 2012, 03:51 PM
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Arafel979
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 04:57 PM


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Brought over from the Sam spoiler thread:

QUOTE
Dean didn't throw his amulet away at Cas's 'behest'. Cas said it was worthless and Dean, being as down in the dumps as he was and hurt from his wrongly interpreted greatest hits of Sam's, dumped the amulet.

I recall an interview or something years ago in which Jensen said that he thought Dean threw the amulet away because when Sam gave it to him instead of giving it to John in AVSC, it conveyed to young Dean(in his mind), the father-figure role; and when Dean threw it away it was because he felt that he hadn't fulfilled that role well enough for Sam-which would coincide, in some ways, and IMO, with how Cas felt about it, at that time, and why he(Cas) had called called it, "worthless".

Sorry I don't have a link, and it was a long time ago(maybe something said at one of the cons?). I've always liked his take on it because to me it fits more with how I also think Dean would feel about Sam's "greatest hits"/memories in DSotM-needless guilt about things Dean erroneously thinks and feels he'd done "wrong" in their lifetimes that had kept Sam from thinking of him(Dean) and their family with as much longing, or in the same "brighter" light that Dean has always thought of Sam and the family unit.
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Raven524
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 05:27 PM


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I agree and I kind of remember the same thing--I think it was said at a convention but I can't remember either which one.

In any event, I've never thought it was done out of spite but more the sign he'd given up all hope, just like Cas had at that point. I also like Jensen's take on it as well. I just know that the last time he was asked about it, he said it might show up again--but he didn't know for sure.

In my mind, I always figured that Sam picked it up and was keeping it safe until the right moment. Again, it's probably just my writer's imagination going--that would be so cool to bring it back to show they were united once again. Will it happen, who knows but I've always liked the story element of it.

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thurman
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 06:06 PM


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QUOTE (Arafel979 @ Mar 1 2012, 04:57 PM)
Brought over from the Sam spoiler thread:

QUOTE
Dean didn't throw his amulet away at Cas's 'behest'. Cas said it was worthless and Dean, being as down in the dumps as he was and hurt from his wrongly interpreted greatest hits of Sam's, dumped the amulet.

I recall an interview or something years ago in which Jensen said that he thought Dean threw the amulet away because when Sam gave it to him instead of giving it to John in AVSC, it conveyed to young Dean(in his mind), the father-figure role; and when Dean threw it away it was because he felt that he hadn't fulfilled that role well enough for Sam-which would coincide, in some ways, and IMO, with how Cas felt about it, at that time, and why he(Cas) had called called it, "worthless".

Sorry I don't have a link, and it was a long time ago(maybe something said at one of the cons?). I've always liked his take on it because to me it fits more with how I also think Dean would feel about Sam's "greatest hits"/memories in DSotM-needless guilt about things Dean erroneously thinks and feels he'd done "wrong" in their lifetimes that had kept Sam from thinking of him(Dean) and their family with as much longing, or in the same "brighter" light that Dean has always thought of Sam and the family unit.

Thats actually fascinating. BUT what an actor thinks and what the writers write are often differnt. So is what is portrayed on screen.

Dean walked over to the door. Stopped. PAused for several seconds knowing sam was watching him and then threw it away. To me it was VERY obvious Dean was literally throwing the symbol of the brothers relationship away as a way to hurt Sam.

I'm not sure what the point of the amulet returning would be? if it was as you said Jensen thought it to be, Arafel...then if it returned ...what? Is show going BACK to the parental/child vibe between the guys? I would hate that, especially if Dean used that to keep Sam at arms legnth again. 'Gotta keep my game face on for Sammy."

Blech. I'd rather Sam never picked up that amulet. No more returning to unequel Father/son type relationship.

Sam had a father. he needs his friend and brother.
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Nightshadeisis
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 06:28 PM


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True, but it's hard to convey that thought to someone when they were raised with one mantra being driven into their head by their father, and that is to look out for their little brother. It can be hard to accept that, after years of being convinced that you are needed in terms of stepping in to those shoes, that the time has come that you aren't really needed in THAT capacity anymore. That's why I really liked the look on Dean's face when Sam said that he was probably relieved that he didn't have to look after him anymore. It was far from relief that you saw there. More like he was wondering "So NOW what do I do?"
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thurman
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 07:10 PM


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I never saw releief on Deans face either. More like you said...Dean didn't know what he was gonna do now or what his role is.

See...I keep thinking Dean needs to realize that sam doens't need a daddy. he needs his brother, a friend and a hunting partner. Sam needs someone who will let him stand side by side with Dean and carry half the weight because its HIS weight too.

its scary as hell to think Dean can turn some of his attention inward and work on himself. Figure out whats gonna make him happy. Figure out why he hunts.

I love my hunters; I love that they question themselves. But I loved it even more when they knew why they were hunting, Saving People. I'd like to see Dean get back to that place when he thought the human race...families was worth saving. Same with Sam.

Deans speech to Sam in Wendigo still resonates with me. Back then hunting wasn't just a job they had no choice about. It was Deans calling. And it became Sam's too.

So...yeah, lets have Dean take care of himself and let Sam be there for him...as a Brother and friend. And vice versa.
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Nightshadeisis
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 07:55 PM


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QUOTE (thurman @ Mar 1 2012, 07:10 PM)
I'd like to see Dean get back to that place when he thought the human race...families was worth saving. Same with Sam.

Deans speech to Sam in Wendigo still resonates with me. Back then hunting wasn't just a job they had no choice about. It was Deans calling. And it became Sam's too.


I REALLY like that. smile.gif

I can testify from personal experience that when dealing with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, the changes that Dean went through from Season 4 until now are EXACT. You tend to lose yourself, literally. You have to re-discover who you are, what you want, and what you believe in. It's not that you are purposely being a hollow or rude person; you really just experienced something so horrible that it is hard to relate to the person you were before it happened. You have to find that person again, and let me tell you... nothing in this world is harder or more of a journey than looking yourself in the mirror, asking yourself some serious questions about yourself, and accepting some truths about yourself that you could never have admitted before. But it's a necessary part of that journey.
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Dreamboat2
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 08:00 PM


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I don't see how the relationship has been all that "parental" for some time now. What else does Dean need to do to somehow enter this mystical "needs to realize Sam is his equal and partner" land?

Some people just don't want to share and care and lean on others emotionally all that much. Even if they don't look at the other person as a pseudo-child but just as a friend. Or even partner. Some people just don't deal that way and it is no help to them. I don't see what's wrong with that and it certainly doesn't make a relationship parental just because of it.

They have worked together like partners in a professional sense for ages. In the first Season even. Of course, partners do have different opinions on how to handle things and sometimes argue for different courses of action. Sometimes they even follow through on those different courses if a consensus can't be reached. That, too, doesn't make them not equals.

Because of the nature of the show, what has been keeping them in each other's pockets have been circumstances. Something or other was always wrong and couldn't be left alone, lest the show would end. And over the course of the show they grew more and more emotionally unhealthily obsessed with each other. They truly and deeply believe, from the looks of it, that nothing else is out there for either of them.

To me, that's what brings on any kind of anxiety - from either brother, actually - on what they'd do without each other. It has long since outgrown their upbringing and what John drilled into them because when the show started they were perfectly capable of being separated for apparently a long period of time. They were capable of outside bonding.

And in terms of Dean, as long as his "plots" are a combination about some vague soul-searching and fretting about Sam, that is what he is gonna do on the show. The character literally can't do anything else until the writers think of something else for him TO do.
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Nightshadeisis
Posted: Mar 1 2012, 09:02 PM


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See that's what I do like about this show and why I'm happy with how the writers are handling the characters. This show humanizes the characters more than any I have watched, and being a bi-bro fan and supporting both of them, I have always been happy with how their personalities are flushed out. People adjust to changes and grow at different paces and in different ways. They don't have them go through a catastrophic problem and then get over it the next episode, unless they are being like any other human and pretending to be okay while they compartmentalize.

Dean has his own way of struggling with things, and his own definitive breaking point. Sam does as well. And it illustrates wonderfully to me how sibling relationships work, because those ways of dealing are on completely different ends of the spectrum.
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