It has come to our attention that some members are becoming frustrated and discouraged with the circular arguments concerning past season episodes and various characters that are taking place in some of the threads. We have heard that some members are afraid to post because they feel like they will be attacked unjustly for their opinions.

It has always been our goal to allow the free exchange of ideas, either positive or negative. The argumentative nature of some of the discussions appears to be making the experience less pleasant for those who simply want to talk about the show or their favorite characters.

Since we value your input, we are asking you the members to tell us how you think this situation would be best resolved while we continue to monitor and control the situation. Please take a moment to indicate which of the following steps you feel the SN.tv Staff should take when the argument or discussion seems to be at an impasse in the thread.

We will leave this poll open until Friday, August 13th. After which we will discuss the results of the poll and any other PM’s received regarding your suggestions. I want to make it clear that we will be reviewing all options and not just implement the majority vote in the poll. The results will then be posted in the Announcement thread after we have evaluated all the input.

This is your site and we appreciate your continued support. Thank you for helping us to help you enjoy your experience at SN.TV.

Thank you

from Wicca...I think that this poll is a good idea, but Supernatural fans will never be satisfied....even after Supernatural has it's like 10 year reunion with the cast & crew like 10 years after the series (maybe ) only lasted 7 seasons. <_<

I can see the J's in their like 40's with their wives & kids ...going to a ten year CONVENTION reunion ,....where they see and hear fans still debating over Sam VS Dean or the series itself. :lol:


Fans just need to respect other fans and agree to disagree politely. As they say...you can't satisfy all the people all of the time. In Kripke's world is more like...He can never satisfy these Sam&Dean fangirls....all of the time. :huh: :unsure: <_< :blink: :shrug :sherlock

I think unless the conversation has taken a nasty turn and gotten personal, I don't see why the conversation can't just continue. I really don't have any problem with most of the threads going on right now. I see very well thought reasoned arguments. Who cares if they go on and on. Personally, I find it annoying it when the mods step in just because they think an argument has gone on long enough. Maybe, someone who hasn't posted yet would like to add their two cents.

It's funny I probably don't agree with half of what people post, but I also don't take the board that seriously either. None, of what we're discussing is life or death here, people. It about our favorite tv show. What does it matter if we have a bunch of circular arguments going on? For me this is just another element of the entertainment.

Interesting poll. If members are clearly breaking the rules, then rules are already in place to enforce them. The problem isn't so much circular arguing as complete insanity, clear character bashing, and nonstop hatred. Does sn.tv want to be worse than TWOP? Maybe that is a valid question over this issue. This used to be a nice place on the net.

Sammycat, this poll is asking about one specific issue - circular arguments. They aren't against the rules but repeating the same points over and over again does make it difficult for members to move a discussion forward. That's why the staff is asking for members' input on what should be done (if anything).

There's no reason to bring up TWOP or make generalized comparisons in this thread.

Honestly, these rules have been up for about three seasons. Well the no bashing, attacking others rule, so why can't people just follow those rules? It's okay to love the characters and the show but everyone loves it differently and won't have the same opinion of how they felt about such and such. Yeah, if you're a die heart fan you should defend your show or one of the favored brothers, so bashing the other character or member makes you feel like you're doing just that? You can defend the show and your favored brother another way without lashing out or bringing anyone, character or fan down.

Conversations and debates can go on but when you turn a fair debate over the boys into a bashing/attacking thread it's not like some can turn away from it. They'll take it to heart because everyone on this site loves the show in their own way and no one should be told they don't no matter their post, hateful or not. That just adds fire to the flames.

If this post wasn't remotely referring to the poll delete it.

I'd say that the reason this poll has come into play is based on the general feelings that sometimes it is unpleasant to come to the boards to discuss the show because of the inability to move past certain negative outcries and actually discuss the show without descending into the age-old battles of Sam vs Dean.

I've been here since the beginning and have always loved coming to the boards to discuss the show. Unfortunately, there have been times when I don't enjoy coming here. There were a few times when I almost left, it got that bad. Maybe some can be amused by the bickering and actually enjoy the friction heating up the discussions, but I love this show and while I enjoy hearing different takes on the themes and characters, I do not enjoy the tension that sometimes overtakes the discussions.

We are losing posters in mass. Many that I loved conversing with no longer come to the boards because of the negativity and general unpleasantness of trying to discuss the show. Many would rather watch and enjoy the show without their viewing pleasure being tainted by the same old complaints.

My sister teaches school and in her classroom and with her family she asks that you always mention something positive with something negative. When all you hear is criticism you eventually simply tune out. We have the most awesome show on television and I like to rejoice in that. My opinions are just as valid as those who see fault in Kripke's vision and yet if you aren't 'critiquing' the show then it appears you are just easy and uninformed.

Once I've heard the disappointments ad nauseam, I do not need to hear the same complaint in every single thread. It gets old really fast and when it becomes obvious that neither side is budging or even hearing the arguments, then it truly is time to move on and actually discuss the show again.

B.J.

:hug

I've been here since the end of season 1 and I have never seen the forum so bad before. I've been watching threads being hijacked by people looking for arguements and people who originally just wanted to discuss the show stop posting, including myself. It's hard to go into a thread that you had previously enjoyed and have everything you say either ignored or twisted to suit a point they insist on making in every thread they can.
It makes coming in here a chore instead of the get away from our lives that we had previously enjoyed.
It would be lovely to see this board restored to the friendly place it once was, without fear of posting.

I can only support what Mags has said..

I am more than happy to discuss aspects of the boys or the show but right now that seems a impossibility ..

And that is precisely what makes this current trend so disturbing. I don't want to lose any more friends from the boards, or for them to feel they can only stay in their 'safe' zones.

I hate dividing fans between the Dean camp and the Sam camp, or the perception that if you are a fan of one brother you either don't belong in certain threads or your opinion is biased because of your first loyalty.

You can love both brothers and you can discuss both brothers rationally and we should all be fans of Supernatural. :hug

B.J.

:hug

I agree with this, but I haven't seen anything lately that seems this bad. But, maybe I've missed it. And, I do have to admit that I often find some of the scrapping entertaining.

Now, arguments that divide the fans into two camps ......that sounds more like bashing to me and there are already rules against that. Bashing....I can't stand. When someone says something like " I can't imagine why they're even wasting any of the episode on *insert character*.....I couldn't be less interested".....well, now that gets my dander up. I've seen it many times, and the mods seem to continue to allow it.

I've lurked from the beginning, but have rarely felt compelled or comfortable posting or commenting-until recently when I've been considering it because I've noticed more of a "balance" here of late-both in the posts themselves and in what's been allowed to "stand" by the mods concerning the Dean vs Sam discussions. I get that most here, at this point, don't like these types of dicussions, and if that's the way the mods wish to keep it, fine by me, and I will continue as I have, but IMO, it's not going to go away as long as there is even one poster on this site with simply a "favorite"(bi-bro also, not withstanding). I further believe that the writers of this show want the fans to engage in these types of discussions; there can be no other reason that I can see for their writing of the characters in the manner that they have written them, in the past and up to this point.
If discussions get out of hand, ie., turn "ugly"-and by this I mean posters attacking other posters(because for me anything about the show-anything-should be an open topic for discussion-and that means criticisms and praises of everything show-related should be allowed, and neither one viewed as "positive" or "negative"), or, as this poll addresses, if the discussion should reach it's visible end (AKA "becomes circular"), then issues such as these should be part and parcel of the responsibilities of the moderators, on a site this large. And I would also add that in performing thses duties, the mods should attempt to consider things fairly, leaving their own biases out-tough to do, I know, but it's part of the job, IMHO,-and consider the discussions through as unfiltered a Dean vs Sam lens as is possible for them. I will probably continue to lurk for the most part, as is my wont in the on-line community, but I actually applaud what has been going on here of late and this poll is additional evidence of what I see as this site becoming a much more mature and adult place to post. I hope it keeps up.

You may be a lurker, but this is by far my favorite post in the thread. Yes. Discussions about the show shouldn't be censored. Attacks on other posters should be deleted, but there is absolutely no way that I think it's reasonable to say to posters, "No, you may not talk about this opinion that you have about the show, or about this thing that occurred in the show, because some other people don't want to talk about it." There are tons of threads that people can talk in if they don't like what people are saying in another thread. Folks can even bring up a new topic in an existing thread, if they like, as long as it's on-topic (and isn't chatroom-y mocking stuff meant to spam and derail the thread entirely, although I've seen plenty of that allowed to stand as well, which I do disagree with).

If I don't like a topic, I don't discuss it. If I just disagree with someone, I'll discuss it with them and debate it. But I would never, EVER feel okay about forcing a conversation to be shut down because I didn't want to participate in it. The world does not revolve around me.

I maybe new here, but far from new on any type of fan board. My first impression wasn't exactly great from what I've read.

There is a lot of active members compared to other sites (none of them Supernatural related) that I visit, and that must be one hell of a big job for the moderators and administrators of this site. I've been a mod before and its not always pleasant having to read and edit because certain persons just can't comply and play "nice".

I must say, the fans of Supernatural are VERY passionate about it lol But for someone who's just looking to talk about the show because they have very little opportunity in their real life, it can be a bit overwhelming when the threads just seem to be people butting heads on a particular subject, your posts being ignored whitin all of theirs.

I guess what it all comes down to is that the "culture" on the board has changed recently. In the past, posters exercised restraint with their more extreme opinions, and, for the most part, were sensible about posting opinions depending on which thread they were in. For example, there weren't that many posts detailing how much Dean sucks in the Dean thread and not many posts detailing how much Sam sucks in the Sam thread. And it made sense because why would you go and hate on Sam in the very thread where his fans congregate unless you want to inflame things? That's my problem right now. IMO, there's a deliberate attempt by some posters to rile up fans with very negative and sarcastic posts about their favorite character in their own thread. There's a lack of restraint and respect for other posters. In many cases no rules are being broken, but the intent is clear, so I don't envy the mods their job.

To keep it on topic though, the problem with letting arguments fester and last too long is that, in an attempt to find new things to prove their points, posters seem to become nastier, and more hurtful. Negative opinions seem to feed off of each other, and arguments often become over the top or too extreme to even comment on. So to me it's a problem.

when I feel my posts gets ignored I usually let it go. The important thing is I posted it. It's out there, thats't all that matters. lol

If someone doesn't agree with me, I respond back to them but if it takes a turn for the worse, I ignore it because I know no matter what I'll say they're still disagree which will only make the convo much much worse.

See this sounds like bashing to me. A very different thing from "circular" arguments.

Now, I have seen posts that I would consider bashing but was told it was not. Personally, I would feel very annoyed if discussions were cut short, but the board still allowed the bashing to continue.

Aka'magosh, friends!

It looks like we've gotten just a little off-topic with our discussion, but not completely and many of you raise valid problems, concerns, and issues that have not gone undetected by the staff. However, this poll isn't solely about the issue of character and member bashing around the forums; this poll is asking you as members what you think the staff should do incase a topic reaches the point when the conversation has become circular (whether it be caused by two members or 10). This is not a poll about what mods should do against bashing or negative comments; we have rules in place outlining our position on those issues.

We understand that bashing and negative comments are greatly to blame for a lot of circular discussions on the board currently, but what we are asking for your opinions of is not how should staff handle bashing and negative posts, but what should staff do (if anything) when a thread's discussion has reached a point where no one can carry the conversation any further due to a looped discussion between an X amount of members (where X>1...sorry...it's the mathematician in me that had to make that clarification :P ).

As I said, most of you weren't very far off topic, and raised legitimate concerns and reasons for why threads go off topic and begin to loop, however this isn't about the reasons why, it isn't even about how we can fix the problems entirely, it's about what should be done to keep the discussions moving. Because, as many of you have said, we all love coming to the board and discussing our favorite show, but we all hate to see when a good discussion thread dies off because an infinite loop of discussion begins to take place and no one can move forward.

I would like to thank all of you for posting your opinions thus far, and I would like to thank everyone who has also voted in the poll thus far! It's always very helpful for staff to get input from our members! :D

Again, if you have ideas or suggestions that aren't outlined in the poll, please feel free to PM Raven or any other member of staff or post them in here if you wish. :)

Thanks much everyone,
Luke Skywalker
Announcements Forum Moderator

Okay, how about moving the discussion to new thread? If people want to keep the arguments going they don't have to stop, but can continue elsewhere. Mods don't have to move the posts but just direct people to the new link.

Or maybe even creating a whole negative forum, since it seems to me that the real issue is the divide between the people who hold a negative opinion and those who only want to focus on the positive aspects.

they could do that. some members/mods try and steer the topic in the right direction when they see a thread is getting 'off topic or 'focused on a certain issue' Maybe some posters want to keep talking about the topic without being in the crossfire of a 'heated argument' so the mods could move the that one conversation to a new thread so there's a choice the members can choose from. Join the 'heated argument' over there or keep talking about the topic with others over here. It's a little better then cutting the argument off completely and that way all the posters can be happy.

I've been around this board for a few years now, and think most arguments tend to wear out and dry up after a couple pages. (Most aren't discussions because a discussion is people trading opinions and acknowledging the opposing view has some validity, if only in the eyes of the poster) If I were a mod, I would intervene if the argument still persists after a number of pages. If that happens, then its obvious the bone of contention will not be dropped. Otherwise, they tend to dispel on their own! :)

I agree with swordstress. I think most circular arguments eventually run out of steam on their own. But if it looks like people are just starting to repeat themselves, then I'm totally fine with a mod stepping in and telling them to move the discussion along and the posters should then abide by that directive.

Where I think there is a problem is when a mod has made a request but someone ignores it. If one person gets away with ignoring the mod, other people will naturally follow suit. That's when I think the mods need to take firmer action. I think official warnings to individual posters wouldn't be out of line at this point along with an announcement that several people have been warned or whatever. If a person has accumulated enough warnings, then they should be suspended or banned.

If it looks like posters are deliberately mocking or baiting other posters, then those posters should also be dealt with firmly and I do think those posts should be deleted.

I've seen it happen over and over again on this board, a conversation will be going on and someone will make a drive-by post with a snotty comment or sarcastic little dig just to derail the conversation. That's simple trolling as far as I am concerned and that's what escalates the tensions and makes things personal and tends to make people act out in retaliation. It's not mature but it is human nature because nobody enjoys being mocked especially when it seems that people are only bugged by certain types of posts in specific threads but not others. That makes it look like grudge-trolling rather than a genuine wish to lessen tension or stop a circular argument. If people sincerely want to do that, nobody is stopping them from introducing a new subject.

I know everyone thinks TWoP is the Evil Empire around here, but I actually like their no boards-on-boards rule. It forces posters to discuss only the show rather than each other's opinions. That way nobody can take personal swipes at a poster they don't like and feelings tend not to get hurt when only the show, it's producers or its characters are being discussed. It also gives the mods a useful tool by which to gage when to step in and when to leave it alone. From my observation, the circular arguments tend to run their course unless someone comes in and starts taking personal shots. That's when people dig in their heels and things get nasty and out of control.

I believe that people need to feel that the rules are applied fairly across the board regardless of people's character preference, positive or negative view of the show or how long they have been active members. That's the only way the mods' authority will be respected and the board will be a more pleasant place for everyone.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

Being one of those people who have had people jump down my throat because I've said the wrong thing, or something they haven't heard, I've only stayed in a couple threads, and that's where I'll stay until something is done. I've been here since S4, and I have taken a "hiatus" myself because of what people have said to me..

I would like to know why, we as people, can't have a calm, cool, and collected discussion regarding the episodes? Why must we bring the Sam vs. Dean debate? Or why must we make one person feel bad because of what he/she said? That's just not right. We're allowed to our opinions. And coming on here sometimes really makes people not want to post.

I'm all for the moderators giving us a warning. That would be just fantastic because then I would feel a little more safe posting in the threads outside of where I normally post. Editing would be alright, if it didn't get out of hand. Like, only if the moderators don't get power hungry. Not saying that they will, but editing should be only necessary if it really starts a WW3.

I hope this input helps, and I hope the moderators find some sort of "middle" to this. :)

I think there are two different issues here: First, posters who are too aggressive and offensive and, second, posters who are oversensitive and quick to take offense. Everyone wants others to validate their position, and it’s irritating to anyone who has a strong opinion on a certain point when they think their arguments are not being treated with appropriate respect.

I think the best market for ideas is lightly regulated. Certainly, insults, name-calling, etc. should not be permitted as provided in the forum rules (though determining where certain lines are drawn, like what is considered disrespectful, can be highly subjective and challenging). If "circular" threads are a concern, a friendly private message, without an official warning, might not hurt. But from what I can see, part of the reason this board is comparatively vibrant and active is that it isn't heavily moderated and has, thus, attracted some articulate and passionate posters. When a moderator steps in, it's like a sledgehammer coming down when only a little tap may do the job. Telling people to move on in a thread is really throwing one's weight around and pretty much kills both the discussion and the poster's trust that they can post and get a fair hearing. It always leaves the last word to only one party. It creates resentment; after all, the discussion wouldn't be continuing if those involved weren't engaged and didn't feel there was more to say. Not to mention that it's hard to define, first of all, when an impasse has been reached and, second, who makes that decision, and I can't see that there's any set standards for making these determinations. This leaves any moderators involved open to accusations of arbitrariness and favoritism.

Some issues are simply going to keep coming up because they color the rest of the show; there's no way around that, and acting as if past history doesn't affect the show and fan perspective now is its own brand of trying to ignore the elephant in the room. If there's trouble with a particular poster, or one appears to be baiting another, it might not hurt to recruit another poster who would be perceived as sympathetic to assist. A little commiseration or distraction can relieve some tension, and people aren't so afraid when a 'friend' suggests stepping back and taking a breath. Sometimes, a good, calm, thoughtful post by someone else with a similar perspective can steal the thunder of a hothead or take away the impetus to continue running a certain issue into the ground.

The board should not be in the business of artificially dictating any particular tone for the discussion that goes on in the fandom. It's purpose is neither to be unduly caustic and critical, like a jaded restaurant critic, nor to defend the show or its head honchos when fans have legitimate grievances. If posters don't have at least one place on the board to release pent-up frustration when they're upset, if they can't point out what bothers them as well as praise and still be heard, there's no point in being part of the forum at all. So for me the golden standard for moderating in this forum is minimal and (most importantly) evenhanded moderation. So long as discussion is civil, let it go and try to resolve problems behind the scenes if possible. Avoid taking steps officially except as a last resort. From where I'm sitting, that policy is in the best interest of the board, the show, and the forum members.

I agree with EVERYTHING you've just said. I think as a person who doesn't often get in the middle of these heated arguments, I would still be very frustrated if I came into a thread and got in trouble for commenting on a post after it had been deemed that that particular subject was now off-limits. I enjoy the exchange of ideas that we have here and would hate to see that be lost.

I got a notice from a mod once and my heart jumped. I was apologetic and sorry that I had actually missed their attempt at directing a thread back on track.

I know this is probably not what they are looking for in this poll, but while I hate the idea of censorship in any shape or form, I hate more the idea that posters don't feel safe in threads.

I have a reputation for being pleasant on the boards so it is shocking to some to know that I have been the subject of attack simply because I tried to lessen tension or tried to spark moderation and point out good points. I have been followed out of one thread and attacked in other normally safe threads. I have had PM telling me that I am not welcome in certain threads. I have been ambushed with my words twisted into something they were never intended to be and talked about behind my back. So yeah, it does get very personal and it hurts.

I never thought I would be left crying over my keyboard or that I would consider quitting conversing in a place I love, but it has happened, so whatever is done, something needs to be done so others never feel like that. Period.

Some like the combative tension, many do not. And now I feel like I have put my head on the chopping block yet again, but someone has to stand up and say it for all those lurkers who are afraid to voice their fears.

As far as restricting circular discussions, those that want to hammer home their points will of course want no limit on the number of times they can say the same thing, in every thread in every discussion. Those that want to have a civil conversation without fear of the same old arguments resurfacing and turning the experience unpleasant are the ones who would like some control in their environment. That isn't censorship, that is maintaining a respectful community that all can enjoy coming to.

And yeah, that's a pretty hard line to define. Which is why all the mods deserve our support and respect.

B.J.

:hug

I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe there are times when the mods need to step in and pull back the reins. Many times I've come into a thread after work and found the same people having the same argument they were having when I stopped in in the morning. Truthfully I don't know how people have that much time to write these long tirades. I am a long time member and while I'm not a prolific poster I'd like to think that I can feel safe and post an opinion on a topic and not fear I'm going to get my head chopped off. That is not always the case.

And sadly there are days I wished we had a Ignore button. I get really tired of reading the same stuff from the same people over and over again in multiple threads. I'm running out of threads that I go into anymore....... I'm not willing to leave yet but I'm spending less and less time here and that's really a shame.

I'm not sure exactly how to express this in an appropriately sensitive manner, but what does "feeling safe" in a thread mean? Does it mean simply that people are in line with the forum rules and engaging in civil discourse? That nobody ever challenges one's (perhaps) deeply held attitudes and beliefs? That nobody ever feels uneasy or insecure or inadequate in their arguments or the position that they've taken?

People can become defensive for many different reasons, many of which are entirely subjective and have far more to do with the reader than the poster. Unless a poster has stepped over a clearly delineated line, there is no just cause for a moderator to step in. Moderating decisions, like court rulings, have to be made on the basis of clearly established and understood standards and objective evidence, or they're arbitrary and nobody can have any assurance of being treated fairly. That's not good for anyone. If people want to feel safe, if they want that to be the standard for moderating on the board, it's unattainable, arbitrary, and unrealistic. Somebody is always going to be ready to take offense faster than somebody else can do something to appease them. People have very different levels of sensitivity to all kinds of discourse. There is no assurance that doing whatever is necessary to make certain posters feel safe will be just or fair to other posters; after all, as long as they observe the board rules shouldn't they feel safe from censure and censorship? You get the idea.

I'm reminded of that old aphorism: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Though civil discourse according to the forum rules must be enforced, moderating officially any farther than that will chill legitimate discourse and result in the stagnation of discussion on the board. However much people may want to gush or want others to gush and be displeased if they don't, gushing gets old pretty quickly. We need a broader and deeper discourse than that, a discourse that seeks truth even at the expense of ease and comfort. If we want the board to be a place for free expression and exchange of ideas, something more than just a cheering squad boosting the show whatever it does, moderators must take a very conservative approach.

Feeling safe is not being verbally attacked when one has expressed a difference of opinion. I have seen it happen on several occasions enough times to stop me from wanting to post an opinion of my own in certain threads. Apparently, I am not the only person who feels this way. We have a very passionate fan base here, one I love being included with, but sometimes it goes a little too far.

I love verbal discourse and enjoy reading everyone opinions even if I don't agree with them and by all means express them but not at the expense of ridiculing and demeaning another poster.

I agree! Feeling safe is knowing that when I post something in the episode discussion threads, that no one is going to jump down my throat because they don't agree with my opinion. That they won't verbally attack me because of what I said. Yes, you can disagree with me. Yes, I'd be willing to listen. But when one tells me that I was wrong, or that I'm basically stupid for having that opinion, that's where I draw the line.

And I think that if anyone is being told "You're stupid", the mods should step in and erase that. That's an attack.

I do not, however, feel that the mods should step in when the response is "I disagree... here's why." That's not an attack, that's a conversation.

BJ, I'm sorry that you have been chased in different threads......but I would call that harassment. That I consider unacceptable. I agree, I would not feel safe if that happened to me. And it should be dealt with.

I just hate the thought that just because others have misbehaved, now I won't be able to express my opinion on a subject. We've met our quota of opinions today, thanks. Maybe, I've got it all wrong about what will happen, but this is what it sounds like to me.

I agree - being fairly new in here I see where the conversations can go and it's not affable at times, so I refrain from posting. I do like to engage in conversations where both sides can be heard and voice their opinions, but not to the point of ridicule or belittling. I choose not to get into those since it tends to keep spiraling and I don't want to add fuel to the fire.

I do like talking about aspsects of the show that interest me, or I have questions about and want to get others opinions on, so I choose to do that in certain threads with others who aren't argumentative, but have valid points to make. It just brings down my love of the show to engage in those circular arguments. I don't wear blinders when it comes to SN and do love to talk about it, but I do find myself limiting it to a few places.

Life is stressful enough without arguing over a TV show that is designed to be entertainment for us.

To clarify again, the poll above is about repetitive arguments. If many people are posting their thoughts in a discussion and no rules are being violated, there's no reason for a mod to step in.

The staff is asking if it should do anything in cases where members are repeating the same points over and over and there is no forward movement in the discussion. That's very different from deciding there's a "quota of opinions."

I suggest that the mods err on the side of restraint and only intervene if the circular nature of the conversation is extreme. I think most conversations do and should be allowed to run a natural course. When they don't, a suggestion to move on is appropriate with private follow up only if necessary. We have to trust the mods to decide when that time has come.

I do worry about the chilling effect this could have, but if it is only applied in genuinely problematic situations, it should be fine. I want everyone to feel welcome everywhere on the board, but not at the expense of anyone else's freedom to talk about whatever they want within the rules. When I feel uncomfortable, I can either butt in or stay away. It's up to me to make that choice in real life and here. That can be very frustrating, but it's also reality. At least here we have the mods to help mediate. ;)

Okay, then I would have to agree in extreme cases....it may be necessary for the mods to step in. I'm sure you will have to feel your way to determine when you really need to do this. But, again in some of these extreme cases, I think an argument could be made that they cross the line into harassment.

You can tell from my info that I've been a member here for a long time but never posted. I came, I've read, and now I'm leaving without comment. This place is way too hostile even for me and that's saying a lot.

I quite agree! We do like the idea of free speech...right? ;)

It seems to me that another poll about bashing might be needed! :o

There should be a general warning and then a PM to the person who can't heed it.

OK, here goes. I've been avoiding this site since the finale and have only recently started to return and that's only in one thread. I've even stayed away from the Sourcies, which for me is damn near unbelievable. :lol:

The reason I temporarily left is the circular arguments, especially the ones in the Dean spoiler thread. I get that some fans were disappointed in how the finale ended. I get that some fans feel that Dean's storyline was nonexistent for the first couple of seasons, and when he did get one of his own, it was mishandled and basically dropped. On some of those things, I've agreed with those fans and on others I've disagreed.

The problem started though when any tidbit of a spoiler was used to back up those opinions. I thought that if I left for a few months that the Dean storyline discussion would be abandoned for something new only to discover that anything new was being used to support the old arguments. Spoilers aren't used to move the discussion along at all but merely to prop up the same old BS. The Dean spoiler thread is basically split along the lines of fans that were pissed off by the S5 finale vs the fans who were happy with the finale. I know that that's a simplistic breakdown of the sides but I believe that it's the gist of it. Then when you add the occasional combative Sam fan into the mix, well the thread is basically a combat zone and I know of many longtime posters who no longer enter into it.

I don't know if other threads have this problem but it sounds like they do. All I do know is that I'm pretty much spoiler free for the first time since season 1. I do know that many many longtime posters have found some safe haven for themselves and only go there when they come onto the board. We've also lost many friends over the last year because of the fights that never end. While I don't condone censorship, I just can't help but feel that something has to be done and soon.

What about having those who enjoy a particular circular argument start up their own threads on the subject which would leave the original thread open for the purpose it was created? That way those who wish to argue can argue and those who wish to discuss a particular episode or a spoiler can do that also. :shrug