Society, A little discovery I made about society

[James]

In this society, it seems as if you have lots and lots of options. That, is a big delusion. In reality, there's only two. Do or Fail. Why do we go to college? For the education? For the money? Or just because society declares that if we don't go to college we don't have money? When you first look at the question, you might think Party or something. But deep inside, I think we all know too well. Society have already set up a set of rules and in this rulebook it clearly states that we have to make money to survive. And to do that we got to go through college whether we like it or not. Not only college, but High School, Middle School, Elementary and every other level of education you can ever think of.

So, no big deal. No money. Money is for the greedy anyways right? Wrong. The society decides that you must have money so that you can actually pay for the following: a shelter, food and other basic human physical needs. I am not talking about a lot of each or anything. I am just talking about enough to keep one alive. There's no I want to do something or not. There's only do what the society says or you will end up dead on a street corner. Or begging for cash. That's not really a way out is it?

Let me tell you, society have already declared especially from where I am from, if you don't finish college you are doomed. You have no future. You are about as useful as dead. In fact, you'd rather be dead than go through all the misery of humiliation and without the basic needs.

What does it matter what major you do? Just get one and get a job. Do what society tells you because in reality there is no other way. After all, only cowards kill themselves in the face of this. So don't struggle. Don't whine about what you don't want or don't like. You don't even have a choice it's do or die. Nothing in between. And when you fail, no one will save you, no one will spare their sympathy for you. You are just another face in the crowd, no one knows who you are. Your failure will only kill you, no one else.

This society will not weep for you. It doesn't even have tears. It shows no remorse. You make it by following blindly and try to make the best of the experience of this bondage and slavery you are born into or fail and die a miserable death. Which one will it be? That's up to you. As for me, I choose to live. To be living is at least better than a miserable death. Don't you think?

[Spritescaper]

Wow. That was needlessly long-winded.

I get the gist of what you're saying though. We go to school to become productive members of society, society dictates how we live, etc. It's nothing we haven't heard before.

If "bondage and slavery" is the way you want to look at life, that's your call. But in my experience, die-hard pessimism rarely pays off.

[LukkiStarr]

Well, it seems someone's in a bad mood...

Sorry about that, I'll be serious now. It is true that society asks for a lot, and I'm sure that all the jobs moving away to other countries isn't going to make it any better. But I'm sure completing college or not isn't the ultimate filter. There's always the job at the hamburger stall, right? I don't know if you need a diploma for that, and I'm pretty sure one would have to live in a dumpster because there's nothing better one can get with a salary of that job at the hamburger stall. I don't know their salaries though, so who am I to say... No wait, those jobs are filled mostly by foreign people and/or robots (sorry, just trying to lighten up the mood...)

Does the plumbers' job require college graduation?

Here I'd like to mention something about the graduation rate when compared to jobs and employment, but I really don't know the statistics about that.

Here where I live unemployed people are granted money by the state so they can make living. There are still homeless people from what I've heard, even though I have never seen them (I don't live close to big cities, that's why). I think this is a good system, even though those unemployed are sometimes given more money than what certain jobs provide that's sort of a problem.

From my point of view, the society needs more "easy" jobs. I think elections exist for this reason; to improve society. Like said in a documentary I saw recently "if the candidate doesn't do what you want, run for candidate yourself" or something along those lines.

... Although I'll have to admit that that way of governing is rather... efficient, although not very human-friendly.

I don't really have the resources to discuss this matter, as the system is different here than there... sorry for interfering...

[James]

This is one of those days I just sit back and think to myself: why in the world am I doing in school? Do I really have to be in here? not really. Do I have a choice? No. I have to because as we all know I would be doomed without it.
Ever think to yourself: why can't I just get out of this repetitive cycle of life?
I think this thing helped me. i was on the verge of breaking apart. I feel oppressed by the presence of this "society rulebook". I just want to get out of this cycle.
And guess what? When you try, there would be an organization or place or you, but it is going to end up like 1984 by George Orwell. Instead of being a real escape, it's going to bring you right back into the heart of it all. I was thinking about how I have no motivation in college and I want to get that extra boost so I would actually care about it. But i don't because I just see it as what Spritescaper explains as "another step in the social ladder that you have to climb". I used to think like that too. I would Love to think like that. I would pay to be able to live so carefree. School sometimes really lack the meaning for me and I think why in the world am I here for, just for the fact society orders me to do so? Now I know better. It's because for me, it's either do or die. Nothing in between. I'd love to though. I really would. If there's one thing I would die for, it is the freedom to be carefree. The freedom to forget about why the world's so messed up and just drift into a fantasy.

Just in case you people don't know. I am from China where even University Graduates from top universities with bachelor degrees cannot find a job at the cemetery as a grave digger or undertaker. How sad is that? The population is the gravest challenge one would get from the day they are born. This is not America, if I was in America, I would not be so much on the edge. 1.3 Billion people. Seriously, in this country, without more than two master degrees, I'd say you're in for a sweeping job. After all that hard work. just thinking about that makes me sick to the stomach and feel depressed and oppressed. *sigh*

[rjedwards]

I think that I understand where you are coming from, but I think you're making it a bit too complicated. I might be able to understand a little better if I knew what exactly you meant by "society". What do you think is the purpose of society? And what do you want to get out of life?

I'm trying to boil it down to your purpose. Is it personal comfort? Self-improvement? Determining truth?

[Biospark]

The more school you have, the better chance of survival you have, that's how I thought of it. Most of what you say is fairly true, even employers of minimum wage jobs expect you to have a diploma..refering to econ. the more education and skill you have, the more human captial you have and the more you are worth to the employer. Essentially our objective is to increase our human captial so employers are more willing to hire us.

[Dragoon-Darkfire]

God damn James. No wonder Suicide is so high in China.

Women are still treated like dirt, the cities are way overcrowded and you're telling me that two diploma's will get you a job SWEEPING!?

That's just nuts.

[Superdude66]

Like rjed said, what do you exactly mean by society? Who is society? What is society? I understand what you mean by the quote "This society will not weep for you. It doesn't even have tears. It shows no remorse."

Look at some disasters. Look at Viginia Tech. The first few days, people were sad. But I remember the next day, I saw tons of people in my town laughing and having a great time. I must admit, I was one of those. We should not be grieving so much, that it gets in the way of our life, unless it was connected to you. However, we should also not pretend that nothing happened either.

The way I see, there should be a strong balance between grieving over a tragedy and having a good time, recently after a tradgedy. I am talking about general society, which includes the general public. Most people in the United States were not directly involved with Virginia Tech. They still felt bad, but they did not show it too much. America takes too much time being carefree, and not enough respect those who have fallen. As I said before, we should not be crying our eyes out for a week straight, especially if you just heard about it, and you are not personally connected.

Reffering to your line that I quoted, This society will not weep for you. I, for the most part, agree with that. There is a small period that we feel bad, and we understand what they might be going through, but we get over it very quickly, acting as if nothing bad happened at all.

I believe I've gone a wee bit off topic, but consider what I have said.

[rjedwards]

The point that I was hoping to get to is that it is not society that should shape one's satisfaction, but one's view of the world. I've known roommates that had it all, and still complained about everything; I've had friends that spent time in absolute hellholes overseas and came back satisfied.

I have no argument whatsoever with James said - the society that he lives in probably does suck. However, the handful of us complaining about society on this forum most likely won't lead to a hill of beans. Which leads me back to my fist question, albeit slightly modified: What should society be responsible for?

[Superdude66]

Society should be responsible for themselves. Whatever they feel about others is just extra. Where does it say that we absolutley have to care if someone dies? Where does it say that we have to think that attacks on innocents are bad?

When I say that society should be responsible for themselves, I do not mean that the law should not care about others. I mean that your emotions are up to yourselves. You can bottle up your feelings, or you can write about them in extensive detail on your special blog.

You might be thinking "I'm not society, I'm just me." Which, if you alone, and no one else thinks that, then you are somewhat correct. But if everyone in the world thought that, where would we be? Nowhere.

You can have just as much impact on the society around you as the next guy over. It's all up to the choices we make.

[Spritescaper]

Everyone here is an individual. When individuals band together, we form a hierarchy. Society is hierarchy in its rawest form, and it exists (in theory) to promote structure and law. It exists as a collective body, not as a force designed to cater to the whims of each individual it's made up of.

Complaints that revolve around the question of "What can society do for me?" is invalid, because society's role is to cater to the public. Individual happiness is ours to define, and ours to define alone. Just my two cents.

[gill]

This is something that I studied in my college courses. Humans are primarily "social" creatures. Society can be boiled down to this:

Imagine you are a nomadic, solitary being, like a wolverine/caveman behaving person of sorts. You've got your pointy stick or club or whatever, and are out hunting and grubbing around for food. You hear a noise around a large rock. You duck down, assuming it is another predator. You peek around the corner and HOLY CRAP!!! ANOTHER PERSON!!!! Now here is where society comes into play. You see this guy, with his spear, trying unsuccessfully to kill a squirrel. You have two squirrels in one hand and your ready spear in the other. This other guy is now staring straight at you with his spear pointed at your throat. So, what to do, what to do.... Should you try and kill him? he looks pretty wimpy... Yet, he has an uphill advantage... So, should you run? .... How about try and communicate with him. You don't want to hurt him, and he probably doesn't want to hurt you. The ideal thing to do would be to show that you intend no harm, and would like to help getting that other squirrel, and maybe a few more, since your two aren't sufficient for a full meal. So, you slowly lower your spear, and extend your arm with a limp squirrel offering it to him. He takes the squirrel and lowers his spear. This is a social pact. In essence, "I won't screw you over, if you don't screw me over" So, you just started a society. You go roaming around together, help build a better shelter for the both of you, separate during mating season, bring your mates back, start a tribe, or village, start gaining population, developing technology, social structure, hierarchy, and eventually politics.

This is essentially what my Ethics teacher taught me. He's got a PhD in Social Science from some university, can't remember where. So. Meh
Correct me If I'm wrong, please.

[rjedwards]

Pretty cool, gill. I still have a question, though: what is the ultimate purpose of this 'social pact'?

The first thing that comes to mind is "better chance of survival." More people mean better chances at catching food, and better chances of defense. Perhaps "better chances of finding a mate" as well. The problem is, neither one of these cavemen are under any obligation to help each other. If Caveman #1(Ug) decides to suddenly kill Caveman #2(Ogg) when he's not looking and eat him, hey, why not? It's worth losing a single squirrel in order to gain a 150-pound walking meat sack. Or if a sabre-tooth tiger catches Ogg with his loincloth down, then it could give Ug the time he needs to escape while Ogg is torn limb from limb. My point is that "better chance of survival" and "perpetuation of the species" plays a part, but they are not the only reasons.

There is also a
(oh God no, here he goes again, run for cover!)
Moral purpose to society.
Call it my "value of human life" society. Beyond the primal needs of survival and spawning offspring, there is some unwritten law that tells us that we ought to look out for the well-being of others, in spite of their use to society as a whole. There is some value placed on human beings that goes beyond their physical and mental abilities.

~We care for the handicapped and diseased in spite of their uselessness.
~We care for the elderly after they retire or grow senile.
~We have 'friends' and 'lovers', not just 'comrades' and 'mates'.(hopefully you get the idea.)
~Most importantly, this is where we get the idea that we are obligated to work within and for the society we live in.

Alright... I'll come down off my soapbox for the time being. Whadda you think?

[LukkiStarr]

That reminds me that I heard somewhere that elephants, too, care for the other members of the same herd, and seem to - if this is the correct term - mourn for the loss of one of the herd's members. And then there are elephant graveyards, and I remember reading too that elephants visit these graveyards frequently to mourn their passed away 'friends'. I suppose it's similar with humans. I might be wrong of course, and I may remember wrong. Just a thought.

~Lukki

[gill]

Very good RJ. Very good indeed. Sound's a lot like good old ethics class. If anyone doesn't understand what this dude just said, go wiki "Social Contract Theory" Should come up with a long winded philosophical article.

And yes Lukki, you remembered correct on the elephant thing.