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Posted: Mar 1 2008, 04:28 PM
Member No.: 1,884
Joined: 29-February 08
In this topic I will analyze the relationships between infamous cocaine traffickers from the golden age of coke dealing (the late 70s to mid 80s). Any other information that can help put the puzzle together would be appreciated.
My curiousity peaked when I asked myself a damn good question; did George Jung and Jon Roberts know each other? I will begin by mapping out a basic overview of their careers in cocaine dealing. What is especially important is the years that they did this (and it took much research to excavate the FACTS here).
George Jung was a cocaine trafficker who ultimately amassed around $100million from his work. It is very difficult to see exactly when he began selling coke, but I can state for sure that it was BEFORE 1977. After much weaving, I will note circa1975 as the time he began his career in cocaine. His most significant career ending arrest came in 1987. So he was in the business from 75 to 87, roughly. I have a very difficult task in trying to narrow exactly how much coke he was trafficking per week or month during his peak. I am sure that he spent time transporting cocaine for Pablo Escobar and that he (George) worked with Carlos Lehder extensively. So from here we can see that Pablo, Carlos and George all knew each other.
Jon Roberts was a cocaine trafficker who also profited $100million (claims he saved 50 million and spent 50 million). I know he was responsible, usually, for the movement of 300 to 500 kilos per week at his peak. He worked with Micky Munday, who was the transporter (using either his plane or a boat to smuggle the cocaine, and then deliver it to Jon). I cannot remember how long his reign lasted, but I believe he was arrested earlier in the 80s. Whatever the case be there is no doubt that at a certain point in time, George Jung and Jon Roberts were infact both running their businesses simultaneously. Which begs the question, did they know each other, know of each other, ever talk to each other, ever work with each other, etc.
Let's be smart here. Simply tracing their connections can help us out. I believe a majority of the cocaine George dealed with was from Pablo. I am trying to avoid using the term Medellin Cartel, because I know that was actually just a name the media gave the operation and they themselves never at all used that title. But for lack of a better term.... We can assume that Pablo was involved with this Medellin Cartel. Many claim he had the lead role, though there is no proof of this and many of the people actually involved at the time claim this is false.
And where was Jon's coke coming from? Essentialy, that same cartel. So we have two groups of people here. The Cocaine Cowboys operation (if we must);
Jon Roberts (trafficker)
Micky Munday (smuggler)
Max Mermalstein (oragnizer)
Rafael Cardona (medellin confidant)
So were any of these people aware of George and co.? Of course they were aware of Carlos Lehder (who owned Norman Cay island) and Pablo Escobar. But did that organization ever personally work with Jung or Lehder? After many hours of investigation I have concluded that no, they didn't. Although that seems nearly impossible given the circumstances of the situation. How can these two groups be smuggling hundreds of kilos weekly for the same region (medllin) at the same time, yet not be in cahoots and possibly even not be aware of each other?
Max Mermalstein was involved with Jon Robert's clique and is, quite undoubtedly, the biggest snitch in the history of the drug game. Once arrested he sank an entire ship of a cocaine operation. I tried to find quotes from Lehder's group if they ever at all had anything to do with this Max character (again, if they even knew he existed, if they ever talked to him, worked with him) and I came across a decent find.
Juan David Ochoa was a cocaine trafficker during this time period as well, who was more involved with the Carlos Lehder side of the game. Along with his brother Jorge Ochoa, he ran much of the cocaine game during this entire time period. Some claim he and his brother were infact the tippy top of the organization. Alas, that same claim has been attributed to many others involved and never really proven. And BOOM I found an interview with him where he is asked point blank....
In the 1986 indictment, you are charged with conspiring with Max Mermelstein and Rafael Cardona [Rafico] in Florida--that while you were living in the United States, you discussed how to get money out of the distributors in California. What is your response to that particular charge?
Remember, these are the two groups I have been trying to find connections between. And then answer...?
That's a false accusation, because I never gathered with Max Mermelstein to discuss a single business deal, because I never had a business deal with him. The only business I had was with Rafico, and I never had any problems with him money or anything. . . . And with Max Mermelstein I never had any meetings about drug trafficking at all.
Fascinated. So he claims he NEVER had a sit down with Max but claims he did infact work with Rafico. So we now have a connection made, finally, from the horse's mouth.
what I would like to do is graph a defined chart that lays out the definite relationships between these two organizations, although I am unsure if information that definite could ever be found. In conclusion, we can see that the cocaine cowboys sect did infact have crossing paths with the Lehder side of the game (makes sense). Details of any work they did together, people they both worked for, have not been discovered by me. And my REAL question, that seems to be the ultimate mystery is....
Did Jon Roberts and George Jung know each other?
Did they know of each other, sit down together, work together, whatsoever during the time?
This has been an objective analysis and any further speculating or facts on the case would be appreciated.
Posted: Mar 4 2008, 12:39 PM
Member No.: 1,857
Joined: 27-February 08
you should check out this documentary "Cocaine Cowboys"
Very informative and inside look from the traffickers themselves.
I think you can find it on google.
Posted: Oct 26 2008, 08:11 PM
Member No.: 632
Joined: 31-March 07
I've thought the same thing too..
George was released from Danbury in 1975. He did his own thing for a little bit on Cape Cod -- a failed fishing business, etc. In 1976 Carlos Lehder reached to him about beginning. Thats when George, with Carlos, did their first coke run. 15 kilos smuggled in false-bottom suitcases.
I remember him saying that he got so into the transportation side of it, that he would no longer move a load over less than a million dollar payout. (Back then the going rate per kilo was $10k.)
You sure Jon made $100 million? In Cocaine Cowboys he said that he made prolly just about as much as he put in the bank ~> $50 mill, easily..
Exactly. I remembered when George had been making trips in 1977 with Carlos Lehder to Miami. In 1978 Carlos purchased Norman Cay, which he had been scouting out since the summer of 1977. In 1985 he moved to Ft. Lauderdale, FL so he could be close to Miami for business, but not have to put up with all the Colombians.
Jon was raided in 1986, after his business partner, Max Mermelstein, began cooperating with the feds after being arrested in 1985. Jon never really stated the specific year that he got involved in the cocaine business. He just refers to it as the 70's. In 1979 he dated a former Ford model, who introduced him to Mickey Munday, who had direct connections to the boys from Medellin. Mickey introduced Roberts to Rafa, who in turn partnered him with Max. So I'd put Jon Robert's reign with the cartel (I guess you could say) from 1979 to 1985/1986, though he had been selling cocaine before that.
George claimed that he recieved to different kilos with stamps on them. One had a 'P' on them (for Pablo Escobar) and the other was stamped 'El Viejo,' who he later found out was his brother-in-law Humberto's.
Yeah, he recieved his from Rafa. Jon said his kilos were often stamped with glasses or bicycles.
You gotta remember, a cartel is a loose association of traffickers. That's what a cartel is. Just because you're in the drug business within a particular group doesn't necessarily mean you'll know everyone. It's not like that.
It seems like George didn't have business with Rafa. However, he did have direct contacts to Pablo. George contracted loads to be brought to Miami, then he picked 'em up and transported 'em for a transportation fee.
Mickey said that he used Norman Cay as a refueling point before heading to the States.
I don't think they did either.. Maybe they heard each other's name around town or something, but I doubt they had contact or business with each other.
You have to understand, the cocaine business is HUUGE! And the people at the top--Pablo, the Ochoas, Gacha, and Carlos--like to keep everything seperate so that one bad apple doesn't spoil the rest.
I think thats what it boils down to in the end. There are many different groups in the Medellin cartel (as with the Cali cartel, etc). Do you really think these were the ONLY two factions working for the cartel? Hell no. There's a whole shitload of branches. Direct and indirect business. It's the way of the game. I remember investigators used to say that it was difficult in busting whole cartels because when you chase a lead, you're only taking down one part.. and there are hundreds of parts.
The raid from the Mermelstein incident didn't bury the whole Medellin cartel. I doubt if it even effectively hit Pablo hard as far as law enforcement goes. Just cuz you bust one string don't mean that'll take down the top. Not happening. And it'll be just as hard as finding connections between groups.
You gotta keep in mind, too, that he may not be spitting 100% truth in that right there. He may be, he may be not. Rafa was the guy that handled trips to Colombia on his side, and Max was his business partner on the American side.. So I guess it would make sense.
I don't think so.
However, there's only two ways you can truly find out:
1) Contact the directors of Cocaine Cowboys. They have a Myspace, so hit 'em up there. Ask them, or at least see if they can hook you up with Jon Roberts (or Mickey) themselves.
2) Write to George Jung. His prison address is posted everywhere on the web and he, too, has a Myspace you could contact him at. (Although I dunno if he personally checks it.)