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Pages: (7) « First ... 4 5 [6] 7  ( Go to first unread post )

 Armories, The weapons for each team.
Alaska
Posted: Dec 17 2006, 01:16 AM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



Dude, those Chauchats look fucking vicious. I'm fine with using WW2-era weapons and all, but I mean, why the Hell would the gov't give us those? Even if we aren't taken seriously, I don't think they'd try and jeapordize our health. Besides, they've got the AK, and as anyone who plays CS1.6/Source knows, anyone with an AK is either A.) A Spray-and-prayer who kicks the shit out of you from emptying a clip in you at Two Inches, or B.) Someone who can put a round through your skull at 100 Meters, and frankly, I'm more inclined to believe they are the latter. So, how's about we use a Bullpup variation? They shoot hella far and hella hard.
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Cyber78
Posted: Dec 17 2006, 06:27 PM


Adminbot3000's Alternate Personality


Group: FVZA Agent Command
Posts: 535
Member No.: 2
Joined: 16-November 05



Yeah, those Chauchats do look pretty painful to be shot at with. However I'm a bit skeptical of using light machine guns, just doesn't seem like very much of a police force styled weapon.

Anyhow I wouldn't say that our armory is exactly WWII era. Our SMG's are the only weapons that are truely WWII era. Everything else is still in use by many groups, and the M3's were used by us until about the 90's, not to mention they're still used in foreign nations.

And on to the bullpup weaponry, it's not so much that bullpups are all evil. It's more so that there aren't any bullpups out there that we could easily get and cheaply, nor are there any bullpups that have performance enhancements over the M14, CAR-15, or M16 (possible weapon in the future) that we really have any use for bullpup weaponry. They've got their AK-47's, we've got our M-14's, and soon we'll have CAR-15's (once I get the rest of the info together and post it).


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ruralphalanx
Posted: Dec 17 2006, 08:54 PM


Rookie


Group: Non-Affiliated
Posts: 15
Member No.: 54
Joined: 17-December 06



Uhh just to tell you all, Chauchauts were one of the WORST guns ever made.

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the chauchaut

Not only did they malfunction constantly, but dirt/grime got in the magazine (due to it being open on one side) got in, and jammed it.

Also, it was so poorly manufactured that the parts were rarely interchangeable. And one last thing, Chauchauts are WWI vintage, I do not know why ANYBODY would want to use them.

I personally think FVZA agents would be equipped with a mix of WWII/Cold war/Modern weapons.

I could see some guys with M3A1 Greaseguns, guys with carbines, guys with M1's, M14's, M1A's, AR15 clones (bushmaster, etc), M4's, M16's (A1-A4), and all sorts of weaponry. Since the FVZA is a "special" force, it is likely that the agents would take Govt. issued items, and supplant/replace them with their own.


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HonkyGoth
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 07:18 AM


Fresh Blood


Group: Civilians
Posts: 4
Member No.: 52
Joined: 14-December 06



Only reason I could think of would be because they look pretty bad ass...and then you learn about em. CETME or one of its later counter parts/cousins would be a much better weapon.


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Alaska
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 06:01 PM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



Naw, man. Phalanx, what you've read may be somewhat accurate, but obviously a gun will not fire with dirt in it [Excluding a few modern-ish(Because the AK isn't that modern) weapons, like the AK, which will fire when you want it to fire. Period.] But, like. It was super mass-produced and they were still working on variations. And 'sides, you can't seriously claim that a Chauchaut would be worse, than, say, a Musket, or, like, Pre-Civil War, I mean, magazines alone revolutionized warfighting. You gotta, like, take into account effectiveness. But on any standard grounds, it'd be dumb to use the gun against Vampires, and it'd be ineffective on the Undead. We need to stick to our guns (Ha-ha) literally.
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Zippo
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 07:53 PM


Armory agent (ret.)


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 75
Member No.: 45
Joined: 3-December 06



Just a side note (not that I like them) but it was us Americans who fucked up the Chauchauts by using the incorrect specs. Not that it was a great weapon to begin with but we made it worse.


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Agent Sam 'Zippo' Edison
FVZA Armory Chief
Captain; USMCR


"You, you, and you ... Panic. The rest of you, come with me."
- U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt.
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ruralphalanx
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 09:04 PM


Rookie


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Posts: 15
Member No.: 54
Joined: 17-December 06



QUOTE
Just a side note (not that I like them) but it was us Americans who fucked up the Chauchauts by using the incorrect specs. Not that it was a great weapon to begin with but we made it worse.


Chauchauts were French made and only supplied to AEF forces in 1917, the french didn't even use them (because they were so bad.) We didn't use our LMG (the BAR) because it arrived too late, and on top of that, because we didn't want to give the germans the "new technology" that came with the BAR design. I think the Lewis MG was also a US design, but we gave them to the brits.

The whole idea to use the Chauchaut was made by politicians, not by generals/soldiers.

In essence, the Chauchaut was a cheaply-made weapon that malfunctioned constantly, no matter how well you took care of it.

QUOTE
Naw, man. Phalanx, what you've read may be somewhat accurate, but obviously a gun will not fire with dirt in it [Excluding a few modern-ish(Because the AK isn't that modern) weapons, like the AK, which will fire when you want it to fire. Period.] But, like. It was super mass-produced and they were still working on variations. And 'sides, you can't seriously claim that a Chauchaut would be worse, than, say, a Musket, or, like, Pre-Civil War, I mean, magazines alone revolutionized warfighting. You gotta, like, take into account effectiveness. But on any standard grounds, it'd be dumb to use the gun against Vampires, and it'd be ineffective on the Undead. We need to stick to our guns (Ha-ha) literally.


Ok... it's one of the WORST LMG's ever made. But there are muskets that function better... which is why I list it as the de-facto WORST gun EVER.

It's standards of quality are only a little better than this Haitian's home-made pistol.

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Alaska
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 11:26 PM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



Like, cite your facts, because I have no reason to believe some guy if he doesn't list where it can clearly show, "Due to the Chauchauts malfunctioning, we can clearly see it was the Worst [DeFacto] gun ever." Phalanx, stop bitching. We're not going to implement it in the armory. We, or at least I, never plan to, either.
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Cyber78
Posted: Dec 19 2006, 11:57 PM


Adminbot3000's Alternate Personality


Group: FVZA Agent Command
Posts: 535
Member No.: 2
Joined: 16-November 05



Even if I didn't have issues with LMG's I've decided that I won't support the use of Chauchauts either. We'd be better off just buying AK-47's than that, probably be cheaper too.

But in the meantime, no need for anyone to get nasty with eachother.


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ruralphalanx
Posted: Dec 20 2006, 01:24 AM


Rookie


Group: Non-Affiliated
Posts: 15
Member No.: 54
Joined: 17-December 06



QUOTE (Alaska @ Dec 19 2006, 11:26 PM)
Like, cite your facts, because I have no reason to believe some guy if he doesn't list where it can clearly show, "Due to the Chauchauts malfunctioning, we can clearly see it was the Worst [DeFacto] gun ever." Phalanx, stop bitching. We're not going to implement it in the armory. We, or at least I, never plan to, either.




I would cite my facts, but this is the internet, and people argue over the internet all the time, so why bother? My facts are cited off of memories from a book I read a week ago, and a History Channel special on the weaponry of WWI.

No need to call my words "bitching." I am a moderator at the FVZA forums, I have dealt with people like you before, and to top it off I know what I'm talking about. History is my passion, it is what I excel at, and what I am reading about nearly every day of my life. So don't call my posts "bitching." We are all "adults" here, I think we can act a little more our age.

Now,
There are NO websites on the internet that talk about the Chauchaut (sorry, but I was spelling it wrong. It's chauchat, man I though speaking french woulda helped me figure out how to spell it) But there are plenty on the chauchat.

THE CHAUCHAT
(wiki article)
The Chauchat (pronounced 'show-shah') was a light machine gun used mainly by the French Army but also by seven other nations, including the USA, during and after World War I. Its formal designation in the French Army was Fusil-Mitrailleur Mle 1915 CSRG. It was also known as the CSRG or Gladiator. Over 260,000 were produced, making it the most widely manufactured automatic weapon of World War I. It was among the first light machine gun designs of the early 1900s. It set a precedent for 20th century firearm projects: a light automatic weapon built inexpensively in very large numbers. Like later military weapons that sacrificed quality for quantity (such as the World War II Sten), the firearm itself had noted performance issues. It introduced together novel features, such as a pistol grip, an in-line stock and select-fire which are now typical of modern assault rifles.

PERFORMANCE
(again from Wiki Article)
The technical complaints found in the surveys organized by General Petain in late 1917 were: 1) the magazines were too flimsy and easy to clog with dirt. Two thirds of stoppages were caused by bad magazines. 2) the gun could not fire more than about 300 rounds (15 magazines) continuously without seizing momentarily due to overheating. The latter problem is never mentioned in modern gun literature but it was the Chauchat's most irritating limitation in combat. As a result of this, the recommendation given in application schools for the infantryman was to fire only in short bursts (3 rounds), or on semi-automatic. The weapon was to be fired in long bursts only very rarely, for example in case of emergency. Because of dispersion, it was also recommended to engage targets at relatively short distances, never exceeding 200 yards. Walking fire on full-automatic was actually easier to execute than fixed fire but lacked effectiveness except at almost point blank range.

The .30-06 Chauchat fielded in the last days of WWI by the US had additional problems with extraction of spent brass. But the US initially recieved Chauchats in 8mm Lebel, and those (as shown) were racked with problems.

From firstworldwar.com
The Chauchat comprised France's primary light machine gun throughout the First World War, although many regard it instead as an automatic rifle.

Developed in 1907 (and revised in 1915) the Chauchat weighed around 10kg; its lightness ensured that it was the French infantry's predominant close-support weapon. It is estimated that 250,000 8mm Chauchats were produced during the war using revolutionary new metal stamping techniques - making it the most widely manufactured automatic weapon of the war - and that 50,000 remained in operation within the French Army at the end of the war.

The Chauchat was also adopted by other Allied armies in spite of a somewhat poor reputation; in trench conditions it was regarded as unreliable, with dirt entering via the magazine. The weapon's most common malfunction manifested itself in a failure to extract spent shells. (Made worse in US-altered weapons)

Somewhat unusually the Chauchat operated on a long recoil principle in which the entire barrel recoiled against a spring when fired. During its recoil the barrel was unlocked from the bolt which continued to recoil. At this point the spent shell was ejected with the barrel returning to its starting position. Given such a violent recoil the weapon proved problematic to fire in anything other than highly trained hands.

The American Expeditionary Force, awaiting delivery of their intended primary weapon, the Browning M1917 machine gun, intended to adopt the Chauchat as an interim measure, purchasing 34,000 in 1917. In order to make the transition to the Browning easier the Chauchat was modified to use 0.30 inch ammunition. However the French manufacturers used incorrect chamber measurements with the result that the weapons performed poorly.

In the event the AEF largely used French, i.e. unmodified, versions of the Chauchat rather than the U.S. model until the Browning became available.

I have books but I don't want to dive into them.


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Cyber78
Posted: Dec 20 2006, 01:43 AM


Adminbot3000's Alternate Personality


Group: FVZA Agent Command
Posts: 535
Member No.: 2
Joined: 16-November 05



Ok I think that we're all agreed that Chauchats are not our ideal weapon.


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Rhodes
Posted: Dec 20 2006, 01:43 PM


MSI-Level 1 (Military Sniper Intelligence)


Group: Admin
Posts: 390
Member No.: 41
Joined: 26-November 06



Thanx rural for that wonderful wealth of history there... history is also a passion of mine... more of a study really. ... when time allows...
Incidentally the browning auto used by both germans and americans in the ww's was prone to overheating and stopping. Twas a big problem back then with just about every full automatic death dealing lead slinger. Not just the Chau'whatever.

Just to touch on the 'adult' comments. It's prolly falling on some deaf ears my friend. But those of us here DO appreciate your taking the time to point that fact out.

My suggestion is instead of citing 'facts'... just say you shot the thing yourself and it jammed like in the books.... would be much quicker and easier to defend.
laugh.gif


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*exhale of smoke*...so you think you have a price.
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Agent Armor
Posted: Dec 20 2006, 06:26 PM


Hunter


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 59
Member No.: 48
Joined: 5-December 06



lol guys, the Chauchat thing was just a joke, IE: Worst MG ever made. Sorry it kinda spun out, I shoulda put a smiley or something.

BTW: Even if used properly it can literally shake it's own parts right out of the gun. It was a total fucking turd. Rural was right on.

The French and guns back then...Jesus. Sure, they figured out smokeless powder but their firearms were a joke.
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Alaska
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 02:57 AM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



Well, I just got my ass kicked.


Phalanx, bud. If you had cited that in the first place it would've been easier to believe you. So don't get conceited [Not trying to offend] and all that Moderator shit. [Dramatic flair.] Okay? You're a moderator on the Forums, that's great, but this is the RPG. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but please consider your position before anything else. I see now that yes, it's hella bad. My point was, though, that to make a legit claim you need evidence to back you up, and yes, saying you fired one would be good enough.
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Agent Armor
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 03:03 AM


Hunter


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 59
Member No.: 48
Joined: 5-December 06



You've got a point, but at the same time you could Google it faster than writing a response to him.
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Alaska
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 03:06 AM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



Meh. I could, but that'd ruin the point of it. It [Har] is not my obligation to provide evidence for such a thing. If he's going to make the claim then he needs to back it up.
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Agent Armor
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 04:45 AM


Hunter


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 59
Member No.: 48
Joined: 5-December 06



Actually, I see it as being up to you to prove him wrong. If someone says something you are not sure of, why rely on them to point anything out to you?

If you tell me something I don't buy, why should it be up to you to come back and prove it, just for me, when I can just find out for myself in 10 seconds?
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Alaska
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 05:36 PM


Agent Alaska, Shadow


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 156
Member No.: 26
Joined: 15-November 06



It's the nature of the claim. He says "The Chauchat is the worst gun ever." I ask for evidence, again, it's not my responsibility to prove his claimm
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Zippo
Posted: Dec 21 2006, 06:51 PM


Armory agent (ret.)


Group: FVZA Agents
Posts: 75
Member No.: 45
Joined: 3-December 06



I remember reading somewhere that the Chauchat used by the AEF was built by the Americans to French specs. And yes I realize the BAR didn't see wide use but I believe it did see action in the last campaign of the war.


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Agent Sam 'Zippo' Edison
FVZA Armory Chief
Captain; USMCR


"You, you, and you ... Panic. The rest of you, come with me."
- U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt.
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Cyber78
Posted: Apr 24 2007, 02:34 AM


Adminbot3000's Alternate Personality


Group: FVZA Agent Command
Posts: 535
Member No.: 2
Joined: 16-November 05



Update: Tear gas grenades and flamethrowers have been added to the armory.

Keep in mind ladies and gentlemen that the flamethrowers are for very specific situations only.


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