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Fvza Rpg > OOC Forum > Armories


Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 6 2006, 11:01 PM
Here's the FVZA's armory;
Ok here's the new revised armory stock (I'll get the actual room design figured later).

But before we get started, there's going to be authorization levels. Meaning you can just pull out the biggest gun we have and carry it around in public.

Level 1: You can carry this anywhere you go and keep it on indefinite checkout.

Level 2: You can keep this in any vehicle you have, but may only use it when there is reason to believe that there is a credible threat. Needs to have it's checkout renewed once a month.

Level 3: Can only be checked out and brought on a mission if we have reason to expect heavy resistance. Must be checked out before every mission and returned when the mission is over.

Level 4: Requires specialized training and approval from the either of the armory directors (Zippo and Alaska) or me (John Miller/Cyber78). Also must be checked out on a per-mission basis.

Level 5: Extreme situations only in which a heavy assault will need to be conducted. Requires approval from either of the armory directors and me.

M1911
user posted image
Ammunition: .45ACP
Magizine capacity: 7 rounds
Level: 1
Ah yes, the venerated M1911 Government issue. Used from 1911 (hence the model name) until the 1980's, and still used today by the Marine's in limited quanities. The M1911 packs the punch nessesary to scramble flesh like jell-o in a blender, but isn't as likely to overpenetrate a target like 9mm weapons will. It's also got the reliability you'd expect from a weapon that served in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and even Iraq to an extent. This is our standard handgun

This weapon is cleared for all time use.

Winchester Model 1894 (aka Winchester 94)
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Ammunition: .30-30 Winchester
Clip capacity: 6
Level: 2
This here is an absolutely classic lever action rifle. Reliable and capable of hitting stuff from a pretty nice distance, it's also one of the most common rifles in the world with ammunition readily availible. Need something shot from a distance but don't feel like using more force than nessesary, this here's your gun.


Remington 870
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Ammunition: 12-gauge
Magizine capacity: 8
Level: 2
Here we have the Remington 870, one of the most widely used police/military shotguns in the US. It's been used extensively, it's reliable, and a good 12 gauge is just what the doctor ordered for most of our close combat needs.

M1928A1 Thompson Machine Gun (aka Tommy gun or Chicago Typewritter)
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Ammunition: .45ACP
Magizine capacity: 20, 30, or 50
Level: 4
This here is one of the most famous submachine guns ever produced, and for good reason. With an outstanding rate of fire, reliability, and firepower, the Thompson machine gun was a well made weapon. However due to the rarity of this weapon only four could be obtained, all by donations from WWII/old agency veterans. Thus these weapons are prized and are only granted to the top CQ operatives in the agency, and only used when in dire need.

REC7 (formerly known as the Barrett M468)
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Ammunition: 6.8 x 43mm Remington SPC
Magizine capacity: 30
Level: 3
Quite possibly the most expensive gun in the FVZA's entire armory, the REC7 is actually the end result of a conversion of the M16A2 assault rifle. By using the REC7 conversion kit to replace the upper reciever, the rifle now fires the new 6.8mm round, and uses a short stroke piston mechanism rather than a direct impingement mechanism.

M-14
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Ammunition: 7.62x51mm NATO
Magizine capacity: 20
Level: 3
This thing is one of the Army's most reliable rifles ever made, having been based upon the M1 Garand and improved upon. Although no longer in service on a wide scale variants of it are still used as a highly reliable semi-automatic rifle by USMC and was used by Sergeant First Class Randy Shughart at the Battle of Mogadishu. Currently our primary assault rifle/semi-auto sniper rifle.

Remington 700
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Ammunition7.62x51mm NATO
Magizine capacity: 5
Level: 4
What we have here is one of the most commonly used police rifles in the US. And for those of you who didn't know, the US Army's primary M24 sniper rifle and the USMC's M40 sniper rifle are all modified versions of this rifle. So believe me, they don't get much better than this. Also, since most snipers in the country would be using this it'll mean our snipers will be more comfortable with them.


M79
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Ammunition: 40mm grenade
Grenade Capacity: 1
Level: 3 (when using non-lethal or shotgun ammunition) or 5 (when using fragmentation, incendiary, and other lethal high explosive ammunition types)
Need to clear a house without setting foot inside? Chance's are the M79 has the kind of grenade just for the job. Whether it be buckshot or tear gas, flares or sponge rounds, there's probably a grenade type just for the job. Just remember, use of high explosive ammunition is highly restricted, and for good reason.

Tear Gas Grenade
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Level: 3
A chemically heated grenade that distributes and an aerosol substance which irritates eyes and respiratory systems. Makes for a good way to begin an assault. Just be sure to wear a gas mask.

Flashbang Grenade
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Level: 3
Long story short, they do exactly as you'd expect them to. They make a bright flash, and a loud bang. They severely disorient anyone who looks directly at it or is within nearby earshot. Works especially well on vampires with their enhanced senses.

M2A1-7 Flamethrower
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Ammunition: Napalm fuel mixture + nitrogen gas propellant.
Level: 4
The M2A1-7 is a Vietnam era flamethrower known as one of the deadliest devices ever conceived. By launching a stream of flammable liquid, it is capable of destroying unprotected targets in a short matter of time. Extremely useful for use against zombies and fortifications if used properly, but dangerous to the wielder and allies otherwise.

Note: More weaponry may be added to either of the armories without notice, so it's advised that you check this thread often.

Posted by: Templar Dec 7 2006, 12:25 AM
Here is the Order's armory.

Unlike the FVZA, us vampires do not have authorization levels so we are not limited to gun sets during missions, but do have the unfortunate factor of regional/situational restrictions. Examples of this are avalibility of guns (and their respective ammo) what the vampires have on them currently and generally what they can gather during the mission itself (as bloodsuckers tend to make use of make-shift weapons very often). Normally Order members only carry sidearms and maybe a two handed weapon (such as a rifle) with them. Heavier guns have to be handed out by the pack leader (a-la myself or the highest ranking vampire on the mission with my permission).

Pistols

9mm
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Ammo: 9 x 19 mm
Clip size: 8, 10, 11, 13, 15 or 17 rounds

.45
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Ammo: .45 ACP
Clip size: 7 rounds

.357
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Ammo: .357 magnum
Cylinder capacity: 6 rounds

Varies greatly from vampire to vampire due to regional availability. Mostly stolen off of victims (notably police or gun nuts). Common types could be Beretta 9mm’s, 1911’s and any kind of .357 revolvers. Individual vampires tend to maintain their own sidearm/s.

Assault Rifle

AK-47
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Variants: AK-47, AKS, AKM, AKMS, RPK, AK-74, AK-101, AK-102, AK-103, AK-107, AK-108
Ammo: 7.62 × 39 mm
Magazine capacity: 30-round detachable box, RPK 40-round box, 75-round drum magazine.

Even though it has been said before that the MP5 is cheaper I don’t think the Order would have access to them so I went with the most widely used assault rifle in the world. It would be rare to see one however, but is a good countermeasure to anything the FVZA could bring up. Plus it adds that “terrorist” feel to the order. There are many variants upon this gun, but for simplicity purposes we are going to just refer to them as "AK's"

Carbine

Beretta Cx4 Storm
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Ammunition: 9mm Luger, 9 x 21 mm IMI, .40 S&W, .45 ACP
Magazine capacity:
10, 15, 20 9mm Luger
10, 15 9 x 21 mm IMI
10, 11 .40 S&W
8 .45 ACP

The Storm is a pistol-caliber carbine aimed at sporting, personal defense and law enforcement. Coming in for about $600, it's great at what it does. The Cx4 Storm was developed to be used in conjunction with other Beretta semi-automatic pistols. For example, the magazines for the Beretta 92FS chambered in 9 mm can be used in the Cx4 (also chambered in 9 mm). This aids in a smaller loadout — no longer needing to carry separate magazines for the rifle and handgun — and adds redundancy, allowing a person to carry more ammunition without adding weight. The cold-forged 16.6-inch (422 mm) barrel is chrome-lined for long life and corrosion resistance with any ammunition. Basically it is a really nice, really big pistol with a stock. Nice

Sniper

Remington 700
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Ammunition: 7.62x51mm NATO
Magazine capacity: 5

Easy to obtain and relatively cheap sniper. Good bang for the buck.

Officer guns

.44 magums
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Ammo: .44 magnums (.429 inch)
Cylinder capacity: 6

.50 magums
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Ammo:.50 Action Express
Magazine capacity: 7, 8 or 9 rounds

I included this because of I thought that Alpha’s or pack leaders would want to distinct themselves from the rabble. That and well… Dirty Harry baby. The bloodsuckers, with their enhanced strength, could easily wield the guns and again, like the handgun section it will vary to do regional availability. Money would not generally be a problem for these pricey guns because the vamp’s would be leaders and have access to the pack’s money. I was thinking maybe the overused Desert Eagle would be good here since the vampire leaders would want that “I’m in a movie” feel.

Submachine Gun

MAC-10
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Ammo:.45 ACP, 9mm Luger
Magazine capacity: 30 or 32 rounds

Used by gangs nationwide. Compact and shoots amazingly fast.

Shotgun

Spas-12
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Ammo: 12 gauge
Magazine capacity: 8+1 (internal tube magazine)

Fires either in self-loading semi-automatic or pump action settings. An easy to carry shotgun with the recoil easily taken by a vampire with little or no training. Shooting at 4 shells a second in semi-automatic mode (per trigger pull) makes this little devil is an amazing assault weapon perfect for the close combat orientated vamp.

AA-12 Automatic Shotgun
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Ammo: 12 gauge
Magazine capacity 20 drum magazine

First developed in 1972, this shotgun is fully automatic and packs one hell of a wallop.

Bombs

Pipe bombs
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Ammo: various
Magazine capacity: 1

Molotov Cocktails
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Ammo: various
Magazine capacity: 1

Home-made due to lack of access to proper grenades and explosives. Simple to make and use.

Melee weapons

Combat knife type I (standard)
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This is your standard knife. It’s size ranges anything up to and including 7’’, whereas it becomes a type II. Examples of such knifes are Ka-Bars, kitchen knifes, switch blades, daggers, stilettos, etc.

Combat knife type II (large)
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A larger knife than the type I. This tends to be more unwieldy than the prior, but is far stronger with its blows. Bowie knifes, dirks, kards, krises, bayonets, etc. “That’s not a knife… that’s a knife.”

Machete
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The machete is a cleaver-like tool that looks like a very large knife. The blade is typically 50–60 cm (18–24 in) long, usually with a thin blade under 3mm thick. The machete is normally used to cut through thick vegetation such as sugar cane or jungle undergrowth but it can also be used as an offensive weapon. There are many specialized designs for different regions, tasks, and budgets. Very easy to obtain and almost brainless to use.

Brass Knuckles
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Brass knuckles, also sometimes called knucks or knuckle dusters, are weapons used in hand-to-hand combat. Brass knuckles are pieces of metal, usually steel despite their name, shaped to fit around the knuckles. Designed to deliver the force of punches through a smaller and harder contact area, they result in greater tissue disruption and increased likelihood of fracturing the victim's bones on impact. Takes the old idea of punching to a whole new level.

Chainsaw
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A chainsaw (also spelled chain saw) is a portable mechanical, motorized saw. Normally used for yard work, the chainsaw has gained notoriety as a weapon or an instrument of murder or torture, most famously in The Texas Chain Saw Massacre and its sequels, as well as Motel Hell, Scarface, Dawn of the Dead, The Running Man, Hostel, and the Evil Dead films, as well as the popular Doom computer game series, where it has become somewhat of an icon, and most recently, the Xbox 360 video game Gears of War. Always a favorite.

Special

Home-made
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Ammo: N/A
Magazine capacity: N/A

These can be mission specific. I was thinking along the lines of flamethrowers such as lighter fluid super soakers and match + hairspray combos. Hell, maybe some diet soda and Mentos could come into play…

Body armor

Bullet proof vests
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Ammo: None
Magazine capacity: None

I don't really think vampires would wear armor because it would just slow them down. I found that they are generally easy to obtain however, so more militant vamp's might wear some.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 7 2006, 12:33 AM
acutally i wouldnt see too many vamps tossing a moltov as depicted in that picture.... fire burns baby..... heheheh
but pipe bombs, easily made, and from walmart no less !!!!! (except the wick)...

Posted by: Judder Dec 7 2006, 01:21 AM
Wouldn't if Vamps had to get real down and dirty, carry some sort of melee weapon?
Ex. Brass knuckles, Knives, shit like that etc.


Posted by: Jay Dec 7 2006, 02:00 AM
QUOTE (Judder @ Dec 7 2006, 02:21 PM)
Wouldn't if Vamps had to get real down and dirty, carry some sort of melee weapon?
Ex. Brass knuckles, Knives, shit like that etc.

Melee weapon? Vampires are basically one big melee weapon. But I agree here. We do need a close-range weapon, but I assume that would be up to the individual. Unless Templar disagrees?

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 7 2006, 02:01 AM
I'm just going to let FVZA team policy be that melee weapons will be completely individual. As to what the Order team does is up to Templar.

Posted by: Templar Dec 7 2006, 02:41 AM
Vampire melee weapons will be individual, but the Order stockpiles such weapons, so I will post what the order keeps in stock soon.

EDIT: Done and Done.

Posted by: Judder Dec 7 2006, 03:54 AM
For once i come up with a good idea
Check this out, this is a nasty toy.
Mine.

user posted image

Yep, Used by the americans in world war 1

Posted by: Alaska Dec 7 2006, 04:40 AM
Woah woah woah. Our Armory is totally different than what we agreed on. Wtf?

Posted by: Judder Dec 7 2006, 04:58 AM
Man thats the Order's armoury

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 7 2006, 07:26 PM
QUOTE (Alaska @ Dec 7 2006, 04:40 AM)
Woah woah woah. Our Armory is totally different than what we agreed on. Wtf?

Consultation with Templar. That's what happened to the armory.

Posted by: Templar Dec 7 2006, 10:58 PM
QUOTE (Cyber78 @ Dec 7 2006, 02:26 PM)
QUOTE (Alaska @ Dec 7 2006, 04:40 AM)
Woah woah woah. Our Armory is totally different than what we agreed on. Wtf?

Consultation with Templar. That's what happened to the armory.

Yep, us mods have the final say on pretty much everything around here. Why, what seems to be the problem Alaska?

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 7 2006, 11:10 PM
Essentially we'd had a pretty long discussion and debate on what would make it into the armory, and we were getting pretty close to a finalized armory. However do to the fact that we needed an armory for this mission I decided to go with something that seemed would balance pretty well with the Order's armory.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 7 2006, 11:52 PM
Except for reasonability, there's no EDIT way we'd have axcess to Grease guns and Thompsons. We had already agreed on an armory weeks ago, it seems moreso that the Order shouldn't be outgunned by the FVZA, but all logic says that would be the case. Regardless if you guys are mods, I can gaurantee having those guns in our armory will lead to big-ass weapons. Let's keep it legitimate, so let's stick with the guns the government would give us, and I see Two or three in stock. EDIT your Moderator powers and go to what would be real and what wouldn't be.

And after reading your previous post again, Cyber, we're a government agency and the Order is more of a terrorist cell. We have NO EDIT OBLIGATION to balance with the Order. AT ALL. And if they have a problem maybe, just maybe it should occur to them that they are Vampires, and thus, already have an edge over us, even with guns. EDIT balance, use your brain and go with what would be legitimate. The Government, NOT FVZA AFFILIATES [Agents, directors, etc] would choose what goes in the armory.

Edited by Templar for being asshole-ish

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 12:04 AM
Well Alaska, in that case... in all 'reality' i'll just march a home made dirty bomb right up to the headquarter doors of the FVZA and detonate it. cool.gif
Hey.... lookie lookie.. score a big one for the Order. FVZA wont have a bomb...nor would they EVER dream of us doing that... but we're terrorists. ninja.gif

Sometimes realism isnt the point....its about having a fun time... creating interesting plots. You think if they introduce a zombie outbreak, "thats" real?
Yeah.. uh huh. Take a chill pill and join in on the fun or sit back, read about it and keep your whiney emo trap shut. Don't be a buzzkill for the rest of us.


Posted by: Alaska Dec 8 2006, 12:30 AM
Rhodes, shut your EDIT mouth and understand the point. The point is, Templar and Cyber did it to balance out powers, which is ridiculous, because as I said, we have no obligation to be balanced. That, and any Order member who'd be EDIT enough to dirtybomb the HQ, or any branch, would be instantly giving himself a sticker that says, "FREE PK RIGHT HERE."

And on that whole EDIT emo point. I'm a EDIT 20-year old going to college in the grand state of Washington, who the EDIT do you think you are, even joking are with such a stupid-EDIT thing as that. Get real, when I was in school, that whole stupid "Emo" thing hadn't emerged yet, pay attention and grow a pair, bud.

Edited by Templar for being asshole-ish

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 12:50 AM
Then if you're sitting there, junior, and saying they balanced the powers... boo fuckedity hoo and didnt have too, whats your point? Exactly, you felt the need to bitch. Just like I felt the need to jerk your whiney ass emo chain. Glad to see you bit soooo hard. As mods they can do whatever the hell they feel like, tis their board reponsibility and power. So if i were you, i'd kill that bug up your ass.

So, son, take your 13yr-my-junior ass BACK to highschool and learn how to either frickin read, or comprehend because if you ever get into the big boy 'real' world, your ass is gonna be grass by corporate leadership such as myself.

And if you are in college, your STILL in school.

And i really don't care to comment on the 'grandness' of the state of Washington nor its academic turnout.


Posted by: Judder Dec 8 2006, 12:53 AM
QUOTE (Rhodes @ Dec 8 2006, 12:50 AM)

So, son, take your 13yr-my-junior ass BACK to highschool and learn how to either frickin read, or comprehend because if you ever get into the big boy 'real' world, your ass is gonna be grass by corporate leadership such as myself.
And i really don't care to comment on the 'grandness' of the state of Washington nor its academic turnout.

Damn man.
You're right about life though
Shit ain't fair
I've been to Washington
I think I'll stay my southern ass in Georgia.
There are a bunch of racists in Washington.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 12:55 AM
just passin on the pearls of wisdom whereever, whenever i can... but do they listen...... meh... hardly.

oh well.... some gotta learn the frying-pan up side the head way.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 01:36 AM
Ok let's talk realism. We face off against vampires, and zombies.

Dictionary.com's first results for each are as such;
vam·pire /ˈvæmpaɪər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vam-pahyuhr] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a preternatural being, commonly believed to be a reanimated corpse, that is said to suck the blood of sleeping persons at night.
2. (in Eastern European folklore) a corpse, animated by an undeparted soul or demon, that periodically leaves the grave and disturbs the living, until it is exhumed and impaled or burned.
3. a person who preys ruthlessly upon others; extortionist.
4. a woman who unscrupulously exploits, ruins, or degrades the men she seduces.
5. an actress noted for her roles as an unscrupulous seductress: the vampires of the silent movies.

zom·bie /ˈzɒmbi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[zom-bee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. (in voodoo)
a. the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose.
b. the supernatural force itself.
2. Informal.
a. a person whose behavior or responses are wooden, listless, or seemingly rote; automaton.
b. an eccentric or peculiar person.
3. a snake god worshiped in West Indian and Brazilian religious practices of African origin.
4. a tall drink made typically with several kinds of rum, citrus juice, and often apricot liqueur.
5. Canadian Slang. an army conscript assigned to home defense during World War II.

Now let's pretend that you're a congressman. And now let's pretend that you realize that there's a bit of a vampire and zombie problem, and you've got roughly five to ten years before it's completely out of control. But for now, how're you going to justify spending tens of millions of dollars on an agency that hunts creatures widely regarded as just myth and legend. Remember, their existance is not mentioned anywhere in official records availible to the public, so unless you intend on telling the public that you're spending millions on Canuck hunting or hunting for a tall alcoholic drink I doubt support is going to be very widespread. Therefore money is a huge problem for this agency.

In the meantime I suppose that it's time that I go and justify the usage of each weapon.

First is the M1911. Plain and simple, it's one of the best weapons you could use against what we fight and the government has a lot of them just sitting in a warehouse, waiting.

Then there's the Winchester 94. Simply put it's a very common rifle, very easy to use, very reliable, and it's got a very good balance of long range ability and force appropriateness. No police force charges into a situation with assault rifles first, yet there's the need for a good rifle sometimes. That's where the Winchester 94 comes in. Police forces across the country use it for the same reason, effective yet not overkill. Not to mention these things come at about a dime a dozen.

As it stands the Remington 870 is also widely used by police, and they're not too expensive. Sadly, I couldn't find any evidence that the M3 has ever been widely used, so I there's no way we could get around the high pricetag on it. I liked the M3's pistol grips, but research wasn't showing any chance of surplus giveaways.

M3 Grease Guns. To be honest I had little intention of using these until I read that they were actually used by 1st Armored Division up until the early 90's, and it doesn't seem like we've done anything with the one's we had in use throughout WWII, Korea and Vietnam. So I figured most likely there'd be a lot of M3's just itching for a return to combat. So really the M3 is about the only surplus submachine gun we'd be likely to find for anything close to free.

M1928A1. This is by far too classic to pass up. When you consider that Dr. Pecos was a WWII veteran it seems likely that a bunch of the old school agents would have them, and it's not too far off to ask that a handful was donated. Remember people, donations are good. Just remember that it'll come out of your paycheck. And oddly enough it wasn't just gansters that used the tommy gun, the FBI and the Post Office (yes, the mail delivery guys) had a penchant for them too.

Next is the M-14. This here's a weapon that's practically made for hunting vampires and zombies. It's good enough to be the USMC's designated marksman rifle, yet it wasn't too cumbersome for use as the Army's main battle rifle for a time. Although Clinton had most military models destroyed, a semi-automatic version is availible to civilians and law enforcement. And considering we don't need anything more than semi-auto for a rifle I'd say we've found a good match.

Then comes the Remington 700. For bolt-action rifles it's not too pricey, and it's the standard rifle of the most qualified snipers in the United States who are using a bolt-action rifle. So familiarity is right there, the ammo is cheap, and accessories are very easy to find.

Finally the M79. Well it's not as if we just threw them in a giant dumpster when we switched over to the M203's, may as well pull out the M79's and use them.



Now that I've explained how awesome those weapons are I'll respond to what you have to say about not having to balance.

Really, the vampires don't have that much of an advantage over us. Daytime causes sunburn like you wouldn't believe, and they practically go blind. Also because they have to have blood they tend to attract attention whereever they go. So don't thinking that we absolutely need the best of the best to fight them. Otherwise we would've never been able to do a thing about them in the early days of the old agency.

And Rhodes raises a good point. If we go charging in with a bunch of fancy plastic guns what's to stop them from acting like a true terrorist cell and dirty bombing us? Simply put, we can't fight dirty bombs or having roadside bombs placed right outside our headquarters all the time. You might say that they'd be PK'd for such a thing, but don't you think that a dirty bomb would do the same to us? Simply put we've got to stick with fair weaponry if we're going to expect the vampires to play fair.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 02:03 AM
Hey Alaska,

Where do you get off cursing out the mods, man?

You're just pissy because YOUR guns aren't in the game.

Cyber doesn't know much about guns.Except for the Grease Gun and the M1 Tommy gun Cyber did a pretty damn good job of picking our weapons. They're real world and in use all over the world, and North America.

I have suggestions for guns I would like to see used too. But you know what? it's a GAME. Who cares?

There's no call to be dropping "F" bombs on people who are just making us a game to play for our enjoyment.

I am sure if you want, your refund for the $0 you payed to be here will go out in the mail right away.

Here's your options:

1) Chill out and play, it's only a GAME

2) Hit the road.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 02:09 AM
And thats exactly the reason why the sides should be somewhat balanced.
If you give vamps less fire.. they go all vampy power on the hoomans.
If you give the FVZA too much.. they will paint themselves into a corner with no vamps to fight.

But to digress... 'realism'... goes by the wayside.. when we're talking about vampires and zombies.

Realistically if the Aaanold Schwartzneggar was to be packing 4 guns, a rifle, pistols, ammo, armor, grenades, water, survival pack.. he wouldnt run from a battle.. he'd trot at best.. and would surely die from a fast ass vampire (any kind) because they would run his ass down and bite, maul, break neck, or realistically just shoot his ass to hell. Especially thru any kind of forested terrain.. that shits gonna get caught on branches, limbs, bushes and what not.

My only comment is Realism and RPG... are like water and oil... you can shake them up together for a tastey salad topping...but after a lil bit they'll separate.
Take them both for face value when playing any type of writing fantasy game/rpg.




Posted by: Zippo Dec 8 2006, 02:11 AM
Everyone chill and focus on fun ok? Second I completely forgot about Nitro rounds? Is everybody okay with keeping them in use? And I would like to petion for CAR-15s

And yes M3 may suck but they were used for ever and there's a crap load of them around.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 02:12 AM
If someone gave me a Tommy gun instead of a UMP to enter a gunfight with, like I would fucking care.

Things look good. Things look balanced. Templar did a good job and so did Cyber. I think the Vamps and the FVZA are on level enough footing to have real fights.

So do we play, or do we bitch?

Zippo, edit to add we're making the same point...But I kinda like the M3 tongue.gif

Second you on the CAR-15. Let's have just a few. Hey, 10 in the armoury is all you need.

We're talkin $700 per unit here.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 02:13 AM
QUOTE (Agent Armor @ Dec 7 2006, 09:12 PM)
If someone gave me a Tommy gun instead of a UMP to enter a gunfight with, like I would fucking care.

Things look good. Things look balanced. Templar did a good job and so did Cyber. I think the Vamps and the FVZA are on level enough footing to have real fights.

So do we play, or do we bitch?

LOL.. well said Armor... well said... lets quit bitchin and start playin !!!

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 02:15 AM
First off on the nitro rounds, I doubt those are even possible. So I'm going to say no go on that one. Unless of course you brief Armor and he can honestly say that such things do exist, in which case we could stock some but probably wouldn't use them unless the world went all Dawn of the Dead on us.

And now let's play!

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 02:15 AM
Right on fangboy!

Lookin at our characters, and our gear...You might end up kickin my ass just as easy as I might end up kickin yours!

The only way to find out is to step in the ring lol. And we're all game.


Oh, whats a nitro load?

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 02:17 AM
Kick the tires and light the fires! SEMPER FI BITCHES!

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 02:18 AM
I believe it's a highly explosive round that involves nitro glycerin or something. All that I know for sure is that they make one hell of a boom. Zippo will have to give the details.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 02:20 AM
Yeah Armor... prolly so... if im totin my sniper rifle of choice.. .prolly... wink.gif however, Rhodes wont wanna step into the ring one on one if he aint gotta.

'hence the tag line'... "what was that?... prolly the wind......... *blood flows*

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 02:25 AM
Oh man an online sniper duel...wouldn't that be the most interesting 15 days of RPG gameplay ever.

"Armor moved forward another inch, pulling himself with his fingertips, his progress measured in inches per hour. Over the next 50 minutes he carefully readied to....Ah fuck it man, let's just say you shot me"


And I ain't planning on going mano a....vampo? either lol.


Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 02:27 AM
This is going to be something more like a mini-normandy the way I have it planned, no worries Armor. (I just wanna call you STARS)

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 02:29 AM
ooh.. .like the xbox game of wolfenstein?... thats awesome...

Ah mein de furer !! Hez over dar!! Vie Vie Vie !! BLAMMO !!!

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 02:29 AM
Templar, this is gonna rock, I have no doubt about that lol.

You can call me STARS if ya want, I went with Agent Armor cause it was what WSW called me in a cameo in one of his short stories.

I've been called much worse, trust me.


Posted by: Judder Dec 8 2006, 02:52 AM
Hmm... nitro rounds. I think that would signify Cyanide rounds from the Vamps??

Also check the sig

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 8 2006, 02:55 AM
yeah... vamps could get that... but couldnt make it that easy...

Dude...sig friggin rocks !!! better than mine i think..

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 03:00 AM
Just a word of caution on cyanide bullets though. Considering that vampires would want the blood of the person they're shooting at, cyanide might not be such a good thing to shoot people with.

Posted by: Jay Dec 8 2006, 03:11 AM
Well, to be honest, I'm kind of diappointed that I missed out on the bitch-fight (stupid fucking school)...

However, I think that the Order weapons are basically more of a guideline than anything. I have none of the weapons on that list, and I'm seeing that most of the other vampires have their own pilfered weapons, like Temp's GLOCK and Rhodes' rifle (I forget the name). Mind you, I don't think we should get too carried away with the possibilities here. Unless the Order has some kind of laboratory where we can manufacture cyanide bullets (as an example), I don't think we should have them, since they aren't really the sort of things you'll pick up off a gun nut/FVZA agent/insert gun-toting subclass here.

Oh, by the way Judder, loving the sig. I'd better get started on my Order-themed one.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 03:18 AM
Wouldn't being fired kinda cook or boil out the cyanide?

Either way, still not something I would like to be shot with. But then again there's nothing I would like to be shot with.

Except some demerol. That would be nice.


Posted by: Jay Dec 8 2006, 03:23 AM
QUOTE (Agent Armor @ Dec 8 2006, 04:18 PM)
Wouldn't being fired kinda cook or boil out the cyanide?

Doubtful. You'd probably have some sort of residue, like a paste or crystals. I assume you're using a slug filled with the stuff?

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 03:27 AM
I'd imagine that extended fire would heat the barrell enough to cause problems though. So maybe first shot could work, but after a bit you might have trouble.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 03:34 AM
Ever fire a bullet into a dirt pit?

If you ever do, dig it out. It won't be much more than 6 inches in the dirt.

In the time it sits there, it burns sand. The colour turns from brown to white. And if you pick it up, the bullet is still very hot to the touch.

Would there still be some cyanide on it? It's possible though. I am not well versed in science. Maybe it would all burn away, if the bullet is hot enough to burn sand. Maybe all it takes though, is a tiny little flake inside the copper to turn a non lethal shot into one dead agent.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 03:36 AM
I suppose since I doubt any of us have a Ph. D in chemistry and are well versed in firearms at the same time we'll make a compromise. We won't use nitro rounds if you guys don't use cyanide rounds. And if it does come down to such a thing, they both come in limited supplies and will stop working safely after a while.

Over time the barrel will heat up, causing nitro rounds to explode when loaded, and cyanide to just burn away. Therefore no more than a few shots each, but preferably using neither.

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 03:37 AM
Cyanide? Nope, not gonna work.

Now Mercury filled slugs... we might have something. Assassins use it all the time. A little drilling, some wax... the target is done.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 03:43 AM
If you have anything about mercury rounds being used I would like to read it, Templar. Please don't take that as scarasm, it's genuine interest.

I don't see how a nitro loaded round could survive being fired either. When making nitroglycerine explosive, you have to add ice while you are creating it during the whole procedure. If you don't a stir stick hitting the side of a beaker is enough to blow it up. Dynamite uses nitro soaked sawdust for it's explosive, but if you have ever heard of dynamite "sweating" then you know how unstable it gets when pure nitro seeps out of it.

It also provides one awesome buzz. Yeah, people eat dynamite. Hence nitro being used in heart medication etc.

Aaaaanyway...I dunno if it matters. I wouldn't want to kill a vamp with a hit from a nitro round unless they were an NPC and then we can just find other ways to kill them. Likewise, I wouldn't like Vamps killing us with cyanide rounds.

Posted by: Jay Dec 8 2006, 03:55 AM
QUOTE (Templar @ Dec 8 2006, 04:37 PM)
Now Mercury filled slugs... we might have something. Assassins use it all the time. A little drilling, some wax... the target is done.

Like the idea, but, again, mercury is usually kept under high security due to its effects as a poison and madness inducer, and we don't have the facilities to make our own. By the way, you probably won't need to drill for it. Use a hollow-point slug and it will basically disintegrate, releasing the mercury into the target, producing a gibbering wreck of a man.

I think we should stick to the basics. Maybe some sort of weak poison would be available to place inside the slugs, as befits the Order's aims and structure, but those particular slugs would be few and far between.

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 03:56 AM
QUOTE (Agent Armor @ Dec 7 2006, 10:43 PM)
If you have anything about mercury rounds being used I would like to read it, Templar. Please don't take that as scarasm, it's genuine interest.

Since mercury is both extremely dense and liquid, it could improve the terminal ballistics of a projectile by "splattering" into dozens or hundreds of tiny, high-velocity droplets on impact, essentially turning into very fine shot inside the target. The possibility of lead being damaged by mercury* exsists, but it could be avoided by encapsulating the mercury in either plastic, glass, or some inert metal (gold?) and then implanting the capsule into the round.

* Mercury goes into solution with a number of metals at room temperature, lead
being one of them along with silver, tin, copper, zinc, aluminum, and a host
of other metals.

Some reading:
The Day of the Jackal by Frederick Forsythe

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 03:57 AM
QUOTE (Jay @ Dec 7 2006, 10:55 PM)
mercury is usually kept under high security due to its effects as a poison and madness inducer

It was used by dentists, hat makers and in thermometers for years.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 03:58 AM
Ah yes, I loved that book. The movie based on it was good, but that book was fantastic. Anyhow I'll just say that mercury isn't too hard to get, just buy a lot of thermometers and crack them open. Or at least I'm pretty sure the old one's used mercury assuming they don't anymore.

Posted by: Jay Dec 8 2006, 04:03 AM
QUOTE (Templar @ Dec 8 2006, 04:56 PM)
He mentioned the possibility of lead being damaged by mercury*, and we decided it could be avoided by encapsulating the mercury in either plastic, glass, or some inert metal (gold?) and then implanting the capsule into the round.

Doesn't matter if the mercury reacts, as long as the slug is fired soon after putting the mercury inside it. In fact, it would probably help, so that as the lead breaks it releases the mercury. I agree that it would increase the range and whatnot, but there is the problem that the extra density would result in the slug going through its designated target. There are two main possibilities for the mercury situation:

-Mercury slug disintegrates on contact with target due to weakened shell combined with rapid deceleration.
-Slug goes straight through target due to extra density.

All depends on the gun and whether or not you are using a primarily hollow-point slug.

QUOTE (Templar)
It was used by dentists, hat makers and in thermometers for years.

Not anymore.

QUOTE (Cyber78)
Or at least I'm pretty sure the old one's used mercury assuming they don't anymore.

They are now filled with an alcohol, due to mercury's instability.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 04:11 AM
So is a mercury bullet actually smaller than the barrel of the gun that shoots it?

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 04:14 AM
QUOTE (Jay @ Dec 7 2006, 11:03 PM)
Doesn't matter if the mercury reacts, as long as the slug is fired soon after putting the mercury inside it. In fact, it would probably help, so that as the lead breaks it releases the mercury.

The two metals become one. That wouldn't help. Hense the capsule. Plus it takes a while to make the bullet.

QUOTE (Jay)
-Mercury slug disintegrates on contact with target due to weakened shell combined with rapid deceleration.
-Slug goes straight through target due to extra density.

The shell wouldn't be that weakened, when the lead "squishes" inside the target, the mercury is released.

QUOTE
QUOTE (Templar)
It was used by dentists, hat makers and in thermometers for years.

Not anymore.

QUOTE (Cyber78)
Or at least I'm pretty sure the old one's used mercury assuming they don't anymore.

They are now filled with an alcohol, due to mercury's instability.

Doesn't mean we can't find a way of getting our hands on some old school thermies.

Posted by: Jay Dec 8 2006, 04:16 AM
QUOTE (Agent Armor @ Dec 8 2006, 05:11 PM)
So is a mercury bullet actually smaller than the barrel of the gun that shoots it?

It's basically a regular slug, but with mercury inside it.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 04:18 AM
Actually I have heard of bullets that do something like what Jay describes, called "Blended metal" technology. Supposed to be VERY nasty.

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 04:23 AM
I was researching on that and everything I read was trying to go for the "posion bullet" moreso than the "arm-blown-off" round.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 04:31 AM
Unless you want a super small caliber projectile, say something you can easily chamber in a gun that looks like a pen, etc, what is the point?

That I could see...Pen guns, cell phone guns, all kinds of other stuff that would pass customs, be able to mail around, be given back to you after being frisked, etc.

Assassin stuff, basically.

For any other purpose, I don't see the point

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 04:36 AM
If I didn't know any better I'd say STARS had connections with the KGB.

Posted by: Templar Dec 8 2006, 04:36 AM
QUOTE (Agent Armor @ Dec 7 2006, 11:31 PM)
Unless you want a super small caliber projectile, say something you can easily chamber in a gun that looks like a pen, etc, what is the point?

That I could see...Pen guns, cell phone guns, all kinds of other stuff that would pass customs, be able to mail around, be given back to you after being frisked, etc.

Assassin stuff, basically.

For any other purpose, I don't see the point

Well say you only have so many bullets and arn't the best shot. All you have to do is graze your target and then wait for the posion to take effect. No after thought like "oh man, did I kill him or just wound him badly?"

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 8 2006, 04:44 AM
lol Cyber, if I was KGB, I would be poisoning people with Thalium tongue.gif Or the good ol' cyanide umbrella.

Yeah, I see your point, Templar...it's just kinda hard to see someone with the know how and the connections to obtain and use mercury ammunition not being a fairly decent shot. That would be an assassination too I suppose.

Although I do suck with pistols. Don't go spreading that around.

Posted by: Zippo Dec 8 2006, 09:50 PM
QUOTE
SEMPER FI BITCHES


First of by letting me say Damn straight brother

second about the Nitro rounds.

They were pretty much something I came up when we were really hard up for something to kill huge freakin hordes of zombies. It's complicated and as realistic as I would like to stay is just for use in 12 gauge shotguns.

The shells themselves are heavily insulated and stabalized shotgun rounds using actually very little nitro in it more like a very high explosive round for a shotgun. They would be incredibly expensive, I'd class them as extremely restricted for as cyber said Dawn of the dead level problems. Few of them do to limited production.

I always carry one just in case of you know, stuff.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 8 2006, 10:48 PM
I'm not even going to authorize carrying one unless it's dawn of the dead. It's a matter of if we start letting people carry around a single round then that round becomes the magic bullet that gets used for a tricky situation in every mission. It becomes about as obvious as gadgets in Bond movies, and even less creative since the same thing gets used every time.

Posted by: Templar Dec 9 2006, 12:21 AM
Agreed. These Mercury and Nitro rounds have to be ok'ed by the mods before a massive dawn of the dead mission.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 12 2006, 12:12 AM
It occurs to me that I've been an all-around asshole, especially to you, Rhodes, to I gotta apologize for doing that, I guess I'm just a little pissy about the whole Guns situation. And although I do work with the armory, you, Cyber, and you, Templar, are the heads of this site, so your word is law, and that works well enough as is. And for that whole WW2 gun thing, I've got no problem, just so long as you can show that we'll be able to get them, because as far as I'm aware, only the Garand is still in production for rifle usage within the Military, but, whatever, just show me the statistics, otherwise frankly I'll see you as enjoying Call of duty too much.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 12 2006, 12:16 AM
As far as I can tell, the M3's have just been sitting around in a warehouse, and the M1928A1 I'll admit was sort of a guilty pleasure, which is why they'd be in such limited numbers. However I am starting to get the feeling that the CAR-15 is getting a lot of popular support so I've been thinking of switching the M3's for an equal number of CAR-15's. Any thoughts on this?


Also Alaska, I'm very grateful for your apology, and I too am sorry for doing a lot of this without informing you previously.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 12 2006, 12:45 AM
QUOTE (Alaska @ Dec 12 2006, 12:12 AM)
It occurs to me that I've been an all-around asshole, especially to you, Rhodes, to I gotta apologize for doing that, I guess I'm just a little pissy about the whole Guns situation. And although I do work with the armory, you, Cyber, and you, Templar, are the heads of this site, so your word is law, and that works well enough as is. And for that whole WW2 gun thing, I've got no problem, just so long as you can show that we'll be able to get them, because as far as I'm aware, only the Garand is still in production for rifle usage within the Military, but, whatever, just show me the statistics, otherwise frankly I'll see you as enjoying Call of duty too much.

For that matter the CAR is no longer in production for the military either, Cyber...But there are still enough bein made for private sales.

My stance is either/or. I am really neutral to which we use. If more people want the CAR, than CAR it is. I do think the Greaser and Tommy would be more effective overall though.

Very classy Alaska, well said Agent.

Did you know that in round one of the Iraq fight, the 3rd Division went to war with the M3? They were used as compact weapons for vehicle crews because carbines were not as prolific as they are now. So right up into the 1990's, the US army kept the grease gun in their inventory.

They all had to go somewhere.

Realistically? Probably given away to shit countries, or ended up having an unfortunate shmelting accident. Look how big of a bite in the ass that was with the M14, the guys in the sand box can't get enough of them right now. Gee, sure would be nice to have the millions that were given away.

Look how much the price of even the parts has jumped up, and SA is almost always on back order now.

So, you never know. I could see Washington confronting us with money requests by dumping a whole pile of mothballed weapons on us and saying "Quit yer bitchin'"

We ain't CAG, we ain't Delta, we ain't Homeland Security. We're the part of the Govt. they won't even admit exists. Can't throw too much money at that. Especially not given the current political situation.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 12 2006, 01:49 AM
Hmm. The Grease gun was indeed a hella good gun. (thinking back to CoD2 and wondering why it's not in CoD3...) But I'd still insist we would be getting standard Government stuff as we would be a department of Homeland Security.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 12 2006, 01:51 AM
You know, I've been thinking and I now realize that the BR in Halo 2 is of the Bullpup variation, and look how good it is.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 12 2006, 03:36 AM
Keep in mind Halo is a good bit off into the future, and the battle rifle is basically just an M16 in the future, but without semiauto fire. And I'm not too thrilled about any of the current assault rifles in bullpup form. The P90's are nice and all, but not much use for them right now.

But you do raise the question of which government department we'd fall under. The Department of Homeland Security is a likely candidate, but so is the Department of Justice (the home of the old agency).

Personally I'm not too fond of the Departmet of Homeland Security, it's one of the most incompetant, spendaholic departments there is, which of course undermines what we want to be. The FVZA has always been portrayed as this underfunded, yet professional, so the DoH just doesn't feel right. We'd end up working with a bunch of agencies that are almost all related to fighting terrorism. I never really liked to think of vampires as "terrorists" per say.

To me terrorism is just another fad word, vampires and zombiesnever change. Vampires and zombies are an age old enemy that's essentially eternal, the legends have been around since the dawn of mankind. Terrorism is basically is just one of those things that comes and goes, and it's completely political. The FVZA fights something that's eternal, always the thorn in humanities side, sometimes a knife to the throat of humanity.

The Department of Justice on the other hand, I think that's where we belong. For one thing we're more of a police department, so I think we'd fit in so much better with the DoJ. Plus the DoJ is a lot more out of the limelight, yet they're so well established. It's just something about the DoJ that carries more of an air of professionalism and good judgement. And although that may not sound too much like our current agency, it's definatley the kind of reputation the old agency had, and it's the rep that I think we want too.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 12 2006, 03:41 AM
Also in order to keep our equipment pretty consistent I'll ask that everyone on either of the teams use the armories currently posted. Next mission however it'll be mandatory that everyone abides by the armories that are in effect at that time.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 12 2006, 05:44 AM
If I'd feel secure with my M1 Garand, I'd feel secure with anything you guys give me. I don't know if we really need a counter to their weapons, but don't matter. Lay a long gun in my hands and I am good to go, as long as it works.

I know this is an RPG, but it's way more about mindset and training than it is about the gear in your hands anyway.

Just as long as you don't give me an AUG, SA-80, FAMAS or AK that is lol.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 12 2006, 06:33 PM
Meh. The whole Armory situation could be better managed, but, whatever. I'm going to stick to my guns (Ha-ha), but Alaska would be carrying them as an STP either way, but the Armory, again, does have a need to be revised.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 12 2006, 07:37 PM
QUOTE (Cyber78 @ Dec 11 2006, 10:36 PM)
Keep in mind Halo is a good bit off into the future, and the battle rifle is basically just an M16 in the future, but without semiauto fire.  And I'm not too thrilled about any of the current assault rifles in bullpup form.  The P90's are nice and all, but not much use for them right now.

But you do raise the question of which government department we'd fall under.  The Department of Homeland Security is a likely candidate, but so is the Department of Justice (the home of the old agency). 

Personally I'm not too fond of the Departmet of Homeland Security, it's one of the most incompetant, spendaholic departments there is, which of course undermines what we want to be.  The FVZA has always been portrayed as this underfunded, yet professional, so the DoH just doesn't feel right.  We'd end up working with a bunch of agencies that are almost all related to fighting terrorism.  I never really liked to think of vampires as "terrorists" per say. 

To me terrorism is just another fad word, vampires  and zombiesnever change.  Vampires and zombies are an age old enemy that's essentially eternal, the legends have been around since the dawn of mankind.  Terrorism is basically is just one of those things that comes and goes, and it's completely political.  The FVZA fights something that's eternal, always the thorn in humanities side, sometimes a knife to the throat of humanity.

The Department of Justice on the other hand, I think that's where we belong.  For one thing we're more of a police department, so I think we'd fit in so much better with the DoJ.  Plus the DoJ is a lot more out of the limelight, yet they're so well established.  It's just something about the DoJ that carries more of an air of professionalism and good judgement.  And although that may not sound too much like our current agency, it's definatley the kind of reputation the old agency had, and it's the rep that I think we want too.

Thanx Alaska, for the apology, its appreciated.

Cyber.... I would tend to think fvza would fall under the DOD. After all they are in charge over homeland security in a way. I would think at the least both agency hand in hand (i use that LOOSELY) could have the FVZA as a common thread between. Perhaps left over funding trickles down from both agency budgets could end up in the fvza coffers. Just a thought.
That way neither can claim the organization as being a part of them, but have access to your usage.

Posted by: Zippo Dec 12 2006, 10:07 PM
I think the DOJ is where we belong. DOD deals more with external threats were as the DOJ supervises many investigaive agencys (ATF FBI) where we would be right at home.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 12 2006, 11:05 PM
What in samhill does STP stand for?

Posted by: Alaska Dec 12 2006, 11:58 PM
Ugh... I forget. STP Is Service Taxpayer or something... Somebody correct me, as I know I'm wrong.

As Assault Rifles/SMGs/Machine Guns/Military Pistols are illegal in the US, only Law Inforcement and the Government can purchase them, but Service Taxpayers(Wrong, I think, but whatever) are also allowed to own those particular weapons, Alaska was already a Service member as he was Special Forces, but now that he's Government he'd be able to own them, as well. That's all.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 13 2006, 12:22 AM
This of course raises the dilema of the armory becoming a portrait of atrophy if everyone gets to use their own weapons on them. Any thoughts on this from anyone?

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 13 2006, 01:34 AM
ahh, the class III system.

Stuff like machine guns, short barreled rifles, suppressors, etc are not illegal at all. All you have to do is pay a $200 NFA tax stamp, and register the firearm/device. I think thats where the STP thing comes from.

Cyber, you've got a tough one on your hands. I suppose it's either going to be scrap your armory, or put your foot down.

Personally, I would add one or two alternative weapons to the armory and call it good. A little more variety. If agents don't like it they can join the army.

I know Zippo carries a Marine Corps version of our 1911, which is cool. Uses the same ammo, same mags, good to go. His idea of the CAR is worthwhile too. Other than that I think the only person who isn't cool with the armory is Alaska.

Posted by: Judder Dec 13 2006, 02:11 AM
It sounds good to me
We should have a generalized armoury, but be allowed to introduce things like the knuckle knives i showed.

Posted by: Templar Dec 13 2006, 02:31 AM
Your little toys fall under the Knuckle Dusters/type I knifes section. S'not new.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 13 2006, 02:54 AM
Ok, time for the tough choice. This goes for anybody on the FVZA team, I'll let Templar make the policy for the vampires.

I'm going to go with STARS' idea. What I'll do is add in a few alternative weapons that do essentially the same job as some of the others (such as CAR-15's), but once those are added you'll either go by what's in our armory or you might find your posts edited or just missing. However I'll allow for personally owned firearms in the event that it's essentially the same weapon, but just a slightly different model or something. Zippo's M1911 is a perfect example, about the same thing as what we use, but has it's own personality. Sorry if it seems to restrictive, but if we just allow for anything in the armory it'll really suck when people start pulling uber-guns out from nowhere.

Posted by: Templar Dec 13 2006, 02:58 AM
QUOTE (Cyber78 @ Dec 12 2006, 09:54 PM)
Ok, time for the tough choice.  This goes for anybody on the FVZA team, I'll let Templar make the policy for the vampires.

I'm going to go with STARS' idea.  What I'll do is add in a few alternative weapons that do essentially the same job as some of the others (such as CAR-15's), but once those are added you'll either go by what's in our armory or you might find your posts edited or just missing.  However I'll allow for personally owned firearms in the event that it's essentially the same weapon, but just a slightly different model or something.  Zippo's M1911 is a perfect example, about the same thing as what we use, but has it's own personality.  Sorry if it seems to restrictive, but if we just allow for anything in the armory it'll really suck when people start pulling uber-guns out from nowhere.

Totally agreed with. Our armory allows for that anyway. Vamp's are pretty much only allowed to own a pistol that has to be any make or model that is a 9mm/.45/.357 in caliber... everthing else has to be handed out per mission to them by the leader.

I totally forsee the vamps pulling out uber guns the way they are going, so I second the motion.

I WILL edit people, don't test me.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 13 2006, 03:17 AM
Ok, it seems that there's a couple different kinds of weapons labelled as the CAR-15. There's the rifle, the carbine, the submachinegun, I'm a little confused as to what everybody wants. So if anybody could possibly compile a picture, magizine capacity, calibur, and a description that'd be extremely helpful.

Also I'm taking suggestions for other weaponry to add into the armory as alternative weapons that fit the current theme.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 13 2006, 03:56 AM
Here's the CAR-15 I presume ol' Zippo means...also called the XM-177 and Colt Commando. Was used a lot in Vietnam and elsewhere until the M4 came along. Basically it is an M-16 with a 10 inch barrel and a bigass flash hider.

user posted image



Posted by: Zippo Dec 13 2006, 10:13 PM
That's the one. I was also going to suggest maybe upgrading our M1911s.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 13 2006, 10:58 PM
Oohh, what did ya have in mind?

Match barrels? Ambi controls? Novak sights?


Posted by: Alaska Dec 13 2006, 11:56 PM
Oh, and for Thompsons, As we are government, and as they are still under production, it would be easy as Hell for us to get them. Just saying.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 14 2006, 01:52 AM
Huh, I had no idea that the Thompsons were still produced.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 14 2006, 06:52 AM
Auto Ordnance still makes a semi automatic version that I'm aware of, I wonder if anyone makes a fully automatic one?

Oh, Cyber, I looked through some old books and crap lying around here since this discussion started, for something I remembered but not much about.

Turns out there was a program to give M-14 rifles to Law Enforcement organizations. It was called the 1033 Program. Basically, you fill out an application and if accepted the DoD gives you free crap, like body armour or M14 rifles or what have ya. Technically it's for state agencies but I don't see that as mandatory in the rules.

We could sure have taken advantage of that lol. Hence the M14s and maybe a crate of Grease guns from after Desert Storm or something.




Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 14 2006, 10:15 PM
Brilliant work comrade.

Posted by: Zippo Dec 15 2006, 12:51 AM
Yes

Posted by: Alaska Dec 15 2006, 02:35 AM
Froodie. Yeah, Thompsons are still in production, and again, it'd be hella easy for us to get them, but why go Thompson when you can go UMP? *Coughjustjokingcough*

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 15 2006, 03:50 AM
Oh hey guys! I found us an awesome deal on some heavy weapons for the arsenal!


They're older but in good shape...they're called Chauchats...


tongue.gif ohmy.gif biggrin.gif cool.gif

Posted by: HonkyGoth Dec 15 2006, 04:48 AM
Im all for FVZA having a .357mag option in hand guns to. Many plolice forces have used them (state and highway patrol) and its a very common round (as it can be traded off with the .38special when needed).

Posted by: Zippo Dec 16 2006, 12:46 AM
TREKKIES UNITE!

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 16 2006, 03:14 AM
Uh oh, looks like we've got a Trekkie infestation growing. Sounds like I better get O'Neil over here.

Posted by: HonkyGoth Dec 16 2006, 04:32 AM
Whats wrong with a trekkie? Im actually about to try and get a diff sig, but I still dig that one a lot.

Besides...who wouldnt want to face death along side James T. Kirk? Unless you wear a red shirt...

Posted by: Roncas Dec 16 2006, 04:47 AM
One word...


CAPTIANJEANLUCPICARDOFTHEUSSENTERPRISE

Posted by: Jay Dec 16 2006, 05:45 AM
There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow, there's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Jim.

Posted by: Zippo Dec 16 2006, 10:04 PM
Yes being a redshirt is bad for your health. And it's Jean Luc unless your making a joke.

Posted by: Roncas Dec 16 2006, 10:49 PM
nah its typos.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 17 2006, 01:16 AM
Dude, those Chauchats look fucking vicious. I'm fine with using WW2-era weapons and all, but I mean, why the Hell would the gov't give us those? Even if we aren't taken seriously, I don't think they'd try and jeapordize our health. Besides, they've got the AK, and as anyone who plays CS1.6/Source knows, anyone with an AK is either A.) A Spray-and-prayer who kicks the shit out of you from emptying a clip in you at Two Inches, or B.) Someone who can put a round through your skull at 100 Meters, and frankly, I'm more inclined to believe they are the latter. So, how's about we use a Bullpup variation? They shoot hella far and hella hard.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 17 2006, 06:27 PM
Yeah, those Chauchats do look pretty painful to be shot at with. However I'm a bit skeptical of using light machine guns, just doesn't seem like very much of a police force styled weapon.

Anyhow I wouldn't say that our armory is exactly WWII era. Our SMG's are the only weapons that are truely WWII era. Everything else is still in use by many groups, and the M3's were used by us until about the 90's, not to mention they're still used in foreign nations.

And on to the bullpup weaponry, it's not so much that bullpups are all evil. It's more so that there aren't any bullpups out there that we could easily get and cheaply, nor are there any bullpups that have performance enhancements over the M14, CAR-15, or M16 (possible weapon in the future) that we really have any use for bullpup weaponry. They've got their AK-47's, we've got our M-14's, and soon we'll have CAR-15's (once I get the rest of the info together and post it).

Posted by: ruralphalanx Dec 17 2006, 08:54 PM
Uhh just to tell you all, Chauchauts were one of the WORST guns ever made.

user posted image
the chauchaut

Not only did they malfunction constantly, but dirt/grime got in the magazine (due to it being open on one side) got in, and jammed it.

Also, it was so poorly manufactured that the parts were rarely interchangeable. And one last thing, Chauchauts are WWI vintage, I do not know why ANYBODY would want to use them.

I personally think FVZA agents would be equipped with a mix of WWII/Cold war/Modern weapons.

I could see some guys with M3A1 Greaseguns, guys with carbines, guys with M1's, M14's, M1A's, AR15 clones (bushmaster, etc), M4's, M16's (A1-A4), and all sorts of weaponry. Since the FVZA is a "special" force, it is likely that the agents would take Govt. issued items, and supplant/replace them with their own.

Posted by: HonkyGoth Dec 19 2006, 07:18 AM
Only reason I could think of would be because they look pretty bad ass...and then you learn about em. CETME or one of its later counter parts/cousins would be a much better weapon.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 19 2006, 06:01 PM
Naw, man. Phalanx, what you've read may be somewhat accurate, but obviously a gun will not fire with dirt in it [Excluding a few modern-ish(Because the AK isn't that modern) weapons, like the AK, which will fire when you want it to fire. Period.] But, like. It was super mass-produced and they were still working on variations. And 'sides, you can't seriously claim that a Chauchaut would be worse, than, say, a Musket, or, like, Pre-Civil War, I mean, magazines alone revolutionized warfighting. You gotta, like, take into account effectiveness. But on any standard grounds, it'd be dumb to use the gun against Vampires, and it'd be ineffective on the Undead. We need to stick to our guns (Ha-ha) literally.

Posted by: Zippo Dec 19 2006, 07:53 PM
Just a side note (not that I like them) but it was us Americans who fucked up the Chauchauts by using the incorrect specs. Not that it was a great weapon to begin with but we made it worse.

Posted by: ruralphalanx Dec 19 2006, 09:04 PM
QUOTE
Just a side note (not that I like them) but it was us Americans who fucked up the Chauchauts by using the incorrect specs. Not that it was a great weapon to begin with but we made it worse.


Chauchauts were French made and only supplied to AEF forces in 1917, the french didn't even use them (because they were so bad.) We didn't use our LMG (the BAR) because it arrived too late, and on top of that, because we didn't want to give the germans the "new technology" that came with the BAR design. I think the Lewis MG was also a US design, but we gave them to the brits.

The whole idea to use the Chauchaut was made by politicians, not by generals/soldiers.

In essence, the Chauchaut was a cheaply-made weapon that malfunctioned constantly, no matter how well you took care of it.

QUOTE
Naw, man. Phalanx, what you've read may be somewhat accurate, but obviously a gun will not fire with dirt in it [Excluding a few modern-ish(Because the AK isn't that modern) weapons, like the AK, which will fire when you want it to fire. Period.] But, like. It was super mass-produced and they were still working on variations. And 'sides, you can't seriously claim that a Chauchaut would be worse, than, say, a Musket, or, like, Pre-Civil War, I mean, magazines alone revolutionized warfighting. You gotta, like, take into account effectiveness. But on any standard grounds, it'd be dumb to use the gun against Vampires, and it'd be ineffective on the Undead. We need to stick to our guns (Ha-ha) literally.


Ok... it's one of the WORST LMG's ever made. But there are muskets that function better... which is why I list it as the de-facto WORST gun EVER.

It's standards of quality are only a little better than this Haitian's home-made pistol.

user posted image



Posted by: Alaska Dec 19 2006, 11:26 PM
Like, cite your facts, because I have no reason to believe some guy if he doesn't list where it can clearly show, "Due to the Chauchauts malfunctioning, we can clearly see it was the Worst [DeFacto] gun ever." Phalanx, stop bitching. We're not going to implement it in the armory. We, or at least I, never plan to, either.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 19 2006, 11:57 PM
Even if I didn't have issues with LMG's I've decided that I won't support the use of Chauchauts either. We'd be better off just buying AK-47's than that, probably be cheaper too.

But in the meantime, no need for anyone to get nasty with eachother.

Posted by: ruralphalanx Dec 20 2006, 01:24 AM
QUOTE (Alaska @ Dec 19 2006, 11:26 PM)
Like, cite your facts, because I have no reason to believe some guy if he doesn't list where it can clearly show, "Due to the Chauchauts malfunctioning, we can clearly see it was the Worst [DeFacto] gun ever." Phalanx, stop bitching. We're not going to implement it in the armory. We, or at least I, never plan to, either.




I would cite my facts, but this is the internet, and people argue over the internet all the time, so why bother? My facts are cited off of memories from a book I read a week ago, and a History Channel special on the weaponry of WWI.

No need to call my words "bitching." I am a moderator at the FVZA forums, I have dealt with people like you before, and to top it off I know what I'm talking about. History is my passion, it is what I excel at, and what I am reading about nearly every day of my life. So don't call my posts "bitching." We are all "adults" here, I think we can act a little more our age.

Now,
There are NO websites on the internet that talk about the Chauchaut (sorry, but I was spelling it wrong. It's chauchat, man I though speaking french woulda helped me figure out how to spell it) But there are plenty on the chauchat.

THE CHAUCHAT
(wiki article)
The Chauchat (pronounced 'show-shah') was a light machine gun used mainly by the French Army but also by seven other nations, including the USA, during and after World War I. Its formal designation in the French Army was Fusil-Mitrailleur Mle 1915 CSRG. It was also known as the CSRG or Gladiator. Over 260,000 were produced, making it the most widely manufactured automatic weapon of World War I. It was among the first light machine gun designs of the early 1900s. It set a precedent for 20th century firearm projects: a light automatic weapon built inexpensively in very large numbers. Like later military weapons that sacrificed quality for quantity (such as the World War II Sten), the firearm itself had noted performance issues. It introduced together novel features, such as a pistol grip, an in-line stock and select-fire which are now typical of modern assault rifles.

PERFORMANCE
(again from Wiki Article)
The technical complaints found in the surveys organized by General Petain in late 1917 were: 1) the magazines were too flimsy and easy to clog with dirt. Two thirds of stoppages were caused by bad magazines. 2) the gun could not fire more than about 300 rounds (15 magazines) continuously without seizing momentarily due to overheating. The latter problem is never mentioned in modern gun literature but it was the Chauchat's most irritating limitation in combat. As a result of this, the recommendation given in application schools for the infantryman was to fire only in short bursts (3 rounds), or on semi-automatic. The weapon was to be fired in long bursts only very rarely, for example in case of emergency. Because of dispersion, it was also recommended to engage targets at relatively short distances, never exceeding 200 yards. Walking fire on full-automatic was actually easier to execute than fixed fire but lacked effectiveness except at almost point blank range.

The .30-06 Chauchat fielded in the last days of WWI by the US had additional problems with extraction of spent brass. But the US initially recieved Chauchats in 8mm Lebel, and those (as shown) were racked with problems.

From firstworldwar.com
The Chauchat comprised France's primary light machine gun throughout the First World War, although many regard it instead as an automatic rifle.

Developed in 1907 (and revised in 1915) the Chauchat weighed around 10kg; its lightness ensured that it was the French infantry's predominant close-support weapon. It is estimated that 250,000 8mm Chauchats were produced during the war using revolutionary new metal stamping techniques - making it the most widely manufactured automatic weapon of the war - and that 50,000 remained in operation within the French Army at the end of the war.

The Chauchat was also adopted by other Allied armies in spite of a somewhat poor reputation; in trench conditions it was regarded as unreliable, with dirt entering via the magazine. The weapon's most common malfunction manifested itself in a failure to extract spent shells. (Made worse in US-altered weapons)

Somewhat unusually the Chauchat operated on a long recoil principle in which the entire barrel recoiled against a spring when fired. During its recoil the barrel was unlocked from the bolt which continued to recoil. At this point the spent shell was ejected with the barrel returning to its starting position. Given such a violent recoil the weapon proved problematic to fire in anything other than highly trained hands.

The American Expeditionary Force, awaiting delivery of their intended primary weapon, the Browning M1917 machine gun, intended to adopt the Chauchat as an interim measure, purchasing 34,000 in 1917. In order to make the transition to the Browning easier the Chauchat was modified to use 0.30 inch ammunition. However the French manufacturers used incorrect chamber measurements with the result that the weapons performed poorly.

In the event the AEF largely used French, i.e. unmodified, versions of the Chauchat rather than the U.S. model until the Browning became available.

I have books but I don't want to dive into them.

Posted by: Cyber78 Dec 20 2006, 01:43 AM
Ok I think that we're all agreed that Chauchats are not our ideal weapon.

Posted by: Rhodes Dec 20 2006, 01:43 PM
Thanx rural for that wonderful wealth of history there... history is also a passion of mine... more of a study really. ... when time allows...
Incidentally the browning auto used by both germans and americans in the ww's was prone to overheating and stopping. Twas a big problem back then with just about every full automatic death dealing lead slinger. Not just the Chau'whatever.

Just to touch on the 'adult' comments. It's prolly falling on some deaf ears my friend. But those of us here DO appreciate your taking the time to point that fact out.

My suggestion is instead of citing 'facts'... just say you shot the thing yourself and it jammed like in the books.... would be much quicker and easier to defend.
laugh.gif

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 20 2006, 06:26 PM
lol guys, the Chauchat thing was just a joke, IE: Worst MG ever made. Sorry it kinda spun out, I shoulda put a smiley or something.

BTW: Even if used properly it can literally shake it's own parts right out of the gun. It was a total fucking turd. Rural was right on.

The French and guns back then...Jesus. Sure, they figured out smokeless powder but their firearms were a joke.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 21 2006, 02:57 AM
Well, I just got my ass kicked.


Phalanx, bud. If you had cited that in the first place it would've been easier to believe you. So don't get conceited [Not trying to offend] and all that Moderator shit. [Dramatic flair.] Okay? You're a moderator on the Forums, that's great, but this is the RPG. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but please consider your position before anything else. I see now that yes, it's hella bad. My point was, though, that to make a legit claim you need evidence to back you up, and yes, saying you fired one would be good enough.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 21 2006, 03:03 AM
You've got a point, but at the same time you could Google it faster than writing a response to him.

Posted by: Alaska Dec 21 2006, 03:06 AM
Meh. I could, but that'd ruin the point of it. It [Har] is not my obligation to provide evidence for such a thing. If he's going to make the claim then he needs to back it up.

Posted by: Agent Armor Dec 21 2006, 04:45 AM
Actually, I see it as being up to you to prove him wrong. If someone says something you are not sure of, why rely on them to point anything out to you?

If you tell me something I don't buy, why should it be up to you to come back and prove it, just for me, when I can just find out for myself in 10 seconds?

Posted by: Alaska Dec 21 2006, 05:36 PM
It's the nature of the claim. He says "The Chauchat is the worst gun ever." I ask for evidence, again, it's not my responsibility to prove his claimm

Posted by: Zippo Dec 21 2006, 06:51 PM
I remember reading somewhere that the Chauchat used by the AEF was built by the Americans to French specs. And yes I realize the BAR didn't see wide use but I believe it did see action in the last campaign of the war.

Posted by: Cyber78 Apr 24 2007, 02:34 AM
Update: Tear gas grenades and flamethrowers have been added to the armory.

Keep in mind ladies and gentlemen that the flamethrowers are for very specific situations only.

Posted by: Cyber78 Mar 27 2008, 06:23 AM
Update: As hinted at earlier, there's been an FVZA armory change. I've decided to replace the CR-15's with something else. Go on check it out, I don't want to ruin the surprise.

Also, in the interest of balance I've taken the liberty of tossing in another weapon for the vampires team under the category of shotguns.













Ok, so anyhow as to explaining why I stuck those two in there. The USAF is currently switching from the M16A2 to the M4, meaning that there's all of a sudden quite a few M16's out there not being used to shoot stuff with. On the other hand it seemed kind of pointless to stick them in the FVZA armory. We already had a nice 5.56mm NATO gun in there in the form of the CR-15, and the Colt Commando was better for CQ. So I figured why not simply replace the Colt Commando with something a bit better by converting the M16's with Barrett's relatively new REC7 (aka the M468)? This way we've got more stopping power than the 5.56, but still in the form of a very usable assault rifle that can use all the AR-15 family accessories. More firepower than the Colt Commando, but in a more compact package than the M14.

As for why the vampires got the AA-12, I felt that they'd need something to balance out the awesomness of the REC7. I was originally thinking about giving them the AK-101, but I figured that it'd be like giving them the M468 but watered down a bit. So I figured since the M468 is far superior to anything they had in the assault weapons category I'd give them a shotgun superior to ours. Thus we both get some really cool toys, and I think it's still pretty balanced.

Posted by: Cyber78 Aug 8 2008, 05:02 AM
Another armory update!

This time I regret to inform you that I'm not adding any new weapons, instead I'm removing a weapon and one of the features.

First and foremost, some of you may have noticed on the FVZA side that there was a line that specified how many of the weapon was in stock in the armory. I've decided to remove that little line from each weapon. Back when I first started this forum I had grandiose plans to make this an extremely tightly run forum, which I admit it is to an extent when it comes to weapons, and I was going to have it so only so many agents could carry a certain weapon. This way common weapons could be carried by everyone, but only so many agents could be using the heavy stuff. But I've noticed that we seem to get a pretty good variety on the weapons loadouts in the story, so I've deemed it kind of pointless to try and restrict how many agents can carry certain weapons. Since I've never seen a situation where everyone is running around packing flamethrowers I figure that the membership should have been trusted in the first place not to go nuts with the heavy stuff. So from now on if there's a weapon that's listed in the armory feel free to assume that it's in stock.

Secondly, I've removed the M3 Grease Gun. Originally it was only there because the M1928 Thompson was in low stock but the FVZA would still need an SMG. But since I'm removing the in stock numbering thing we no longer have to worry about not having enough Tommy Guns. And since the M3 was basically never used anyhow I figure it's time to get rid of it. For future story purposes we can all just pretend that the M3's have gone into storage as backup weapons.

Posted by: O_O Aug 22 2008, 02:13 AM
I just realized I use the spas-12 and .357 revolvers ( though my character owns the pistols personally), both of which are from the order's armory, and absent from the FVZA's. Should I change my gear, or does it matter that much?

Posted by: Rhodes Aug 22 2008, 12:04 PM
No your good, just remember that with revolvers that if you start 'blasting away at and endless stream of deadheads... you might wanna post something about reloading..

That is all.

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