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Title: Help Create the Story Thus Far


Adminbot3000 - November 4, 2006 09:10 PM (GMT)
Every good RPG has a storyline. And before we get rolling I suppose that we should come up with what's happening so far. Obviously we'll need to have the FVZA come back from disbandment, but we should probably come up with a reason why it's back, and how it all happened. What's the state of the FVZA? Any developments in the world that've cause a change in how we view the undead?

Cyber78 - November 4, 2006 09:21 PM (GMT)
And now that I'm out of the admin chair I'll give my ideas of the story thus far.

I think that we can assume that without the FVZA, vampire and zombie populations would've steadily made a comeback after 1975. So we can use that as a backdrop, that the undead have steadily started to come back. We can say that this prompts Congress to bring the FVZA back as just a small agency that's got a very small budget.

I had one idea that featured remenats of the Order of the Broken Cross breaking into the Santa Rosa Institue in order to steal zombie blood, and then using it on school children while they go around the country biting people and eventually biting a fictional senator. Those ideas could possibly be used later on in the RPG once it gets up and rolling.

But anyhow I'd prefer for the FVZA to simply be a small underfunded agency that has to deal with a problem that isn't widely acknowledge by the public. So although we'd be an official agency, most of the public wouldn't know about us.


EDIT: Another thing I just thought of was weaponry and equipiment. I was thinking the .45 cal M1911, since although the rest of the feds use 9mm a .45 would give us more power against vampires and it gives us a more retro feel.

For assault type weapons I figured we may as well use M-16's or M-14's as our standard rifle, and maybe a tactical shotgun for close quarters work.

Judge Khan - November 5, 2006 02:40 AM (GMT)
I dig the underfunded / realistic weapons idea. Nobody wielding katanas or battleaxes or anything like that.

Tsumari - November 13, 2006 10:02 AM (GMT)
Hmm, well I'm in on the underfunded agency thing, but I'm skeptical about the M16.

Max Brooks has pointed out that the M4 and even the M1 Garand have much higher zombie Kill-to-Resource ratios than the typical M16. I think the FVZA would definitely take this into account.

Cyber78 - November 14, 2006 12:28 AM (GMT)
I'll agree with you on the M-1 Garand, that'd be a pretty good rifle. The M-4 however is a fully automatic carbine, and the 5.56 ammo tends to overpenetrate for use in close quarters around civilians. For carbine work like that I think a good option would be the M1928 SMG since it's compact, rugged, and would use .45 cal ammo.

Ashi Tohya - November 14, 2006 02:40 AM (GMT)
I agree with the underufnded thing. I doubt the FVZA would be highly funded when outbreaks are rare.

Judder - November 14, 2006 03:36 AM (GMT)
True and it would be something if some of the new agents were people that had a choice
Dissapear into the FVZA or dissapear into the Prison system.

Cyber78 - November 14, 2006 03:53 AM (GMT)
Ok I think we've pretty much agreed that we'll be the poor stepchild of the federal government. Now we just need to agree on a few weapons, and maybe throw around a few ideas for a first mission or something.

For weaponry I'm going to suggest that we keep things fairly simple, with a couple of inexpensive specialty items. I feel that our weaponry shouldn't be too expensive, and we should probably go for calibur that's not too uncommon.

For the standard rifle I've rethought the idea of the M-16 and I'm suggesting either the M-14, or the Winchester 94. The 94 can be chambered in .30-30 and .45 I believe, but I'm not entirely sure which calibur would be best. Personally I think that using .45 might be a good idea since we'd have a common ammo type to use with the M1911's. I'm pretty sure that it holds aproximatley 6 rounds at once.

We'd naturally need a handgun to use as a concealed weapon, and for a backup weapon. So as I've mentioned, I'm nominating the M1911. That being a .45 calibur pistol that saw service through both world wars, korea, and vietnam. Being that it packs a good punch, the ammo doesn't overpenetrate as much as 9mm, and it's a very reliable weapon I think it perfectly suits the FVZA. Also it's got style.

I also feel that we'll need a shotgun, probably a 12 gauge police or military model. Two good shotguns that I've heard about are the Remington 11-86 Police, and the Mossberg 590 Tactical. From what I've heard both are highly reliable, although the Mossberg holds an additional round in the magizine at the expense of making the weapon two inches longer. Either way a shotgun would be useful for stuff in situations where we'd be very close to our opponents such as indoors, and it'd also be handy for using as a master key.

For the final firearm I'm going to suggest that we keep a small stock of M1928's, which are basically your famed Tommy gun. Since that'll keep us using .45 ammunition, and give us a well tested weapon I think we'd have an excellent SMG. Although an SMG is pretty useless against zombies it could be handy against vampires.


Then there's the issue of some additional equipment and such. First thing we'd want to look into is nightvision and/or thermal goggles. If we feel that such goggles might go past a realistic budget then we should at least get some good flashlights. Also, something along the lines of mace or pepperspray could be a pretty good last ditch weapon for use on vampires. Plus it could be handy if we wanted to take a vampire alive.

And finally we should get some ideas for atire. This is sort of a big questions. Should we enforce some sort of basic dresscode and be realistic? Or should we allow free reign with trenchcoats and all?

Ashi Tohya - November 14, 2006 04:18 AM (GMT)
If there is a 'dress code' for the agents like the FBI (do they even have a dress code there?). Then it would have to be something that is inconspicuous but other agents would be able to look and be like 'Ah, another agent.'

Also another question I'd like to raise is should we expand the actual RPG section of the site? Two boards is a little confining to me.

Roncas - November 14, 2006 05:53 AM (GMT)
High concentartion mace is going to be needed for last ditch effort (come on its on the site.)

Hey cyber do you know where the picture is of the field ops clothing? I remember seeing a pic of it somewhere.

Cyber78 - November 14, 2006 10:48 PM (GMT)
I'm going to go look around on the website for that sort of thing if I can find it.

Anyhow after consulting STARS on the main forum I'm going to stand by the recomendation of the .30-30 calibur Winchester 94's, and the .45 cal M1911's.

Boom - November 14, 2006 11:13 PM (GMT)
I think that the Vampire and Zombie Viruses (and werewolve virus in some cases) should have become stronger over the past, and the plague is spreading yet again. Hitting cities, and even the arid Sahara and Outback and causing worldwide panic

Cyber78 - November 15, 2006 12:13 AM (GMT)
Personally I'm not too huge on the whole concept of mass panic. At least not right off the bat. Panic situations tend to lead to lot's of funding, media attention, panic, congressional insight, other forms of politics, and just not something that I think we should start off with right off the bat. Maybe that'd be something to try as a plotline down the road, but I'd like to keep the world kind of quiet.

But for now I found some of the stuff off the main page. First we've got the O'Malleys, which is basically just a fancy cattle prod modified for use on vampires;
user posted image

Along with that high concentration mace;
user posted image

Also there's the Night Stalker;
user posted image

The night stalker is a weapon that I'd love to see implemented sooner or later, maybe as a reward for a writer of the month or something. I'd like to here what you guys think on the idea of unlocking weapons.

And here's what Roncas might've been talking about. Here's the recon guy diagram;
user posted image

Here's a picture of the assault team;
user posted image
Keep in mind that the picture of the assault team isn't too detailed so that leaves us a lot of room to get creative.

Here's the shadow (ninja like guy);
user posted image

And finally, we have some guys interviewing a witness;
user posted image

Alaska - November 15, 2006 02:58 AM (GMT)
Alright, if I'm head of Gunnery, forgetting Zippo we do need to keep things realistic, and thus, I think we should outline the guns and whatnot, starting with the M1928 and the Garand.

We need to reinforce the whole "Poor Stepchild" thing and remember that even if the Garand is still used, there's no way we'll be getting a M1928. I'd say we still keep things realistic, and thus suggest the following weapons:

Rifles(Standard, not Assault):
SIG SG550-1 Sniper Rifle
Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
This is a highly-accurate semi-automatic Sniper Rifle. Not having to deal with the bolt action is simply an added bonus. The SG550-1 is as effective in Close Quarters as it is at ranges. This is a gun we need.

AW Accuracy International Sniper Rifle
Bolt-Action
7.62MM NATOs
This also is a highly-accurate rifle, albeit bolt-action. However, the justification for the bolt action comes from its extreme power. Being able to blow the head and soldiers off of a zombie at 500 yards just shows the greatness of such a rifle. Although not effective in Close-Combat, the range more than makes up for it. Of any of the three rifles pick this one.

Steyr Scout
Bolt-Action
7.62/5.56MM NATOs
Of the three rifles, this is the most accurate. The Scout is one of the most reliable and-fast firing bolt-action rifles currently in production. As well as low rapport, this gun is very versatile and effective at 400 yards. If you want strength and reliability, this is the gun to go.

Assault Rifles:

M16A2
Fully Automatic/Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
The M16, although holding less glamour than the M4, is actually a much more effective rifle at distances, and is still used within the Military. Tracing back to its roots in Vietnam, the M16 was one of the great assault rifles of the time.

M4A1
Fully Automatic/Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
The M4 is probably the most popular assault rifle of today, on reputation alone. Seen in many movies with the various add-ons, such as the M203 Grenade Launcher(None of which we'll get for now) The M4 is effective at distances, just not as much as the M16.

SMG
I'm just going to cover one for now.

MP5
Fully Automatic
9x19 Parabellum
The MP5 is the SMG you've seen most in moves, however, it lives up to its reputation. With the extremely good aim along with the amazing power output. Holding standard 30-round magazines, along with extremely low recoil. However, the MP5 is typically better suited for Specialized Government Agencies(Hint Hint) or police Forces, not military.

For legitmacy purposes the Armory should- At this point- Only contain government issued weapons as well as explosive devices(i.e.; Frags, Flashbangs) Not things like AKs or Katanas. We are trying to be a legitimate Government program, not some underhanded god-supplied force, else we wouldn't need that much funding.




Ashi Tohya - November 15, 2006 03:22 AM (GMT)
Maybe we should use that timeline from the other site and if it has anything people don't want in it we could just omit stuff.

Cyber78 - November 15, 2006 03:28 AM (GMT)
Although you have good points on the M1928, I've heard that MP5's a pretty expensive too. So if price is the concern then I guess SMG's are kind of ruled out in general for us.

Anyhow since you tend to have good judgement on rifles, I'm going to trust your judgement on the rifles and nominate the AW Accuracy International Sniper Rifle. But for now I'm starting have reservations about assault rifles considering that we're more of a police agency. I'm thinking the M-16 would be good, but I'm thinking we should only use them in the case of a large assault or something big like that.

Judder - November 15, 2006 03:37 AM (GMT)
Why not something easily acquirable like a .308 hunting rifle or a shotgun from a gun store or pawn shop. It would probably be bought at the agents expense, but it would be worth it, and that could quicken the process of arming all the agency.

Alaska - November 15, 2006 06:14 PM (GMT)
MP5s actually aren't that expensive. I'd place it at below $400, as an AK goes for $500.

The actual State of Wyoming currently has legalized Automatic weapons for Hunting so long as they have silencers- Ipso facto, MP5s couldn't be much more or much less than a good standard shotgun or rifle.

Besides- We're government funded- Which means we'd be supplied with Military weapons without having to actually buy any, as it would be included with the overall government budget, not ours.

Tsumari - November 16, 2006 12:15 PM (GMT)
The Winchester's great if you've got a couple dozen zeds at long enough range, but I have to say that we really need a true, semi-auto carbine for larger concentrations. If you're in the middle of a white zone with a class 3+ outbreak, taking the time to reload a 6-shot bolt-action rifle is not going to be a viable option.

Once again, I'd nominate the semi-auto version of the M4A1, assuming the Garand is out of the question.

I also strongly agree with the choice of the M1911 as our handgun. Power and class- that's what we should focus on.

Roncas - November 16, 2006 04:14 PM (GMT)
I think the M16 is superior to the M4

Jason Drake - November 17, 2006 12:25 AM (GMT)
I think we also need some kind of Combat knife. Like the USMC KA-BAR knife. Unlike i sword it easy to hide and in case of a close encounter with a vampire, it would be better than a handgun. Using them against a zombie would be out of the question

Cyber78 - November 17, 2006 12:34 AM (GMT)
Agreed that we need a knife.

Boom - November 17, 2006 01:42 AM (GMT)
you all know that the FVZA was real right?

Cyber78 - November 17, 2006 01:56 AM (GMT)
Incharacter it was real, and a new one has been reestablished in order to counter a resurging vampire and zombie population. Out of character, we're determining what this agency will look like and what it will use.

Anyhow on to weaponry. I'm not too sure on the M4. It's a carbine, which means that as far as our missions are concerned it'll probably do a very similar job to an SMG. And personally I'd much rather have an SMG since the 9mm ammo won't overpenetrate as badly as 5.56. So personally in CQ situations (which is where civilians are likely to be) I'd prefer to stay away from assault rifles and assault rifle ammo.

An assault rifle might be good for a large scale outdoors assault, but for indoors I'd much rather use shotguns and something using pistol ammo. Now Tsumari is indeed correct that a Winchester 94 is good for small amounts of targets, but not so much for large hordes. The idea behind using a Winchester is that it's a relatively common police rifle, and is perfect for dealing with small groups of enemies without using inappropriate force. So ammo will be plentiful in an emergancy, and won't attract all the attention of an assault rifle. That and they're apparently easier to use and train for with than an assault rifle.

KJ Crush - November 17, 2006 07:00 AM (GMT)
Aside from Weaponry, I have an idea for the overall storyline of why the FVZA was brought back. Now I'm trying to push the werewolf idea, seeing as how, I am a werewolf fanatic, and I think the FVZA's more realistic look on things, can make the werewolf idea even better. Anyway this is my idea....

A few outbreaks of Vampire's and Zombies are reported, but one day the FVZA recieves information, about a string of livestock attacks. Something the FVZA doesn't usually do, but in this case the targets were larger prey. Crows and Horses were being torn to shreds, something you're average predator dosn't have the ability to do, so they sent some guys out, and the set up a stake out, the find out it's a pack of werewolves, they manage to capture one and what ever from there...



Thats jmust off the top of my head but what ever...

Tsumari - November 17, 2006 11:09 AM (GMT)
I'm a werewolf fanatic myself, but I agree with Cyber that they should be used sparingly. We don't want to turn this into the "Werewolves and Sometimes Vampires and Zombies, Too Agency."

KJ Crush - November 17, 2006 08:05 PM (GMT)
Well obviously Werewolves wouldn't be the main focus, but they would be a new threat for this newly born FVZA to take on. The old FVZA never really dealt with werewolves, so they uncover what little resaerch they had on they Werewolves and begin to work on eradicating them. And of course Vampires and Zombies would be a hassle to, but the FVZA are highly trained, and usually make short work of both, but with werewolves that have been studied so little it could add a feeling of the unknown. I dunno still just an idea.

Arnold Johnston - November 20, 2006 04:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Alaska @ Nov 15 2006, 02:58 AM)
Alright, if I'm head of Gunnery, forgetting Zippo we do need to keep things realistic, and thus, I think we should outline the guns and whatnot, starting with the M1928 and the Garand.

We need to reinforce the whole "Poor Stepchild" thing and remember that even if the Garand is still used, there's no way we'll be getting a M1928. I'd say we still keep things realistic, and thus suggest the following weapons:

Rifles(Standard, not Assault):
SIG SG550-1 Sniper Rifle
Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
This is a highly-accurate semi-automatic Sniper Rifle. Not having to deal with the bolt action is simply an added bonus. The SG550-1 is as effective in Close Quarters as it is at ranges. This is a gun we need.

AW Accuracy International Sniper Rifle
Bolt-Action
7.62MM NATOs
This also is a highly-accurate rifle, albeit bolt-action. However, the justification for the bolt action comes from its extreme power. Being able to blow the head and soldiers off of a zombie at 500 yards just shows the greatness of such a rifle. Although not effective in Close-Combat, the range more than makes up for it. Of any of the three rifles pick this one.

Steyr Scout
Bolt-Action
7.62/5.56MM NATOs
Of the three rifles, this is the most accurate. The Scout is one of the most reliable and-fast firing bolt-action rifles currently in production. As well as low rapport, this gun is very versatile and effective at 400 yards. If you want strength and reliability, this is the gun to go.

Assault Rifles:

M16A2
Fully Automatic/Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
The M16, although holding less glamour than the M4, is actually a much more effective rifle at distances, and is still used within the Military. Tracing back to its roots in Vietnam, the M16 was one of the great assault rifles of the time.

M4A1
Fully Automatic/Semi-Automatic
5.56MM NATOs
The M4 is probably the most popular assault rifle of today, on reputation alone. Seen in many movies with the various add-ons, such as the M203 Grenade Launcher(None of which we'll get for now) The M4 is effective at distances, just not as much as the M16.

SMG
I'm just going to cover one for now.

MP5
Fully Automatic
9x19 Parabellum
The MP5 is the SMG you've seen most in moves, however, it lives up to its reputation. With the extremely good aim along with the amazing power output. Holding standard 30-round magazines, along with extremely low recoil. However, the MP5 is typically better suited for Specialized Government Agencies(Hint Hint) or police Forces, not military.

For legitmacy purposes the Armory should- At this point- Only contain government issued weapons as well as explosive devices(i.e.; Frags, Flashbangs) Not things like AKs or Katanas. We are trying to be a legitimate Government program, not some underhanded god-supplied force, else we wouldn't need that much funding.

(sorry for making my first post a contradictory post... but I do feel the need to make a correction or two.)

The M16A2-A4 assault rifles do not have a fully automatic firing mode. They are capable of semi-automatic fire and a three round burst. The differences between the A2 and the A4 are the front grips of the rifle. The A2, similar to the A1 (which does have fully automatic fire) has a two piece molded front hand guard that has an aluminum insert underneath the plastic to help distribute heat durring fast firing.

The M16A4 uses a rail integrated system (RIS) to place plastic hand plates on the rifle. This allows for use of many different attachements to the front of rifle such as flashlights, laser sights (which imho are the most riduculous invnetion ever), and vertical hand grips. This also helps with the dispursal of heat. Additionally on the A4 the carrying handle is removeable and can be replaced with any number of off the shelf optic systems for a medium range point fire system.

The M4 has gone through just as many iderations as the M16 has, and it has maintained a few constants, one being that it is the ONLY assault rifle in use by the US Military (and by use I mean mass usage, not small special units) that is capable of fully automatic fire. The most current version of the M4 is the M4A4. Here are the slight differences between all the versions.

M4A1 - Shortened version of the M16. No colapseable stock (solid stock like the M16), no rail system, permanantly attached carrying handle.

M4A2 - Add colapseable stock as an option.

M4A3 - Add removable carry handle as option.

M4A4 - Add rail system as option.


The M16 and M4 have the same Maximum effective ranges. 550m to a point target, 800m to an area target. Basically this means that if you're going to be shooting at a person without the aid of an optic system your maximum range for effective shots at a single target is 550 meters. Area targets are pretty self explanitory. So which one you choose really depends on what type of operation they'll be used for. Close quarters? M16 is slightly more cumbersome than the M4, so the M4 is probably a better choice. Open city streets or any other outdoor situation? The M16 is the better choice.

That's just my two cents based on what I've seen in my time in the military. If I'm wrong about something, please let me know.

Arnold Johnston - November 20, 2006 05:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Cyber78 @ Nov 15 2006, 03:28 AM)
Although you have good points on the M1928, I've heard that MP5's a pretty expensive too.  So if price is the concern then I guess SMG's are kind of ruled out in general for us.

Anyhow since you tend to have good judgement on rifles, I'm going to trust your judgement on the rifles and nominate the AW Accuracy International Sniper Rifle.  But for now I'm starting have reservations about assault rifles considering that we're more of a police agency.  I'm thinking the M-16 would be good, but I'm thinking we should only use them in the case of a large assault or something big like that.

In all honesty, the best (and cheapest) sniper rifle you can get is a Remington 700. They're chamberd to Winchester .308 so they have an effective range of 800m to a point target. They're fairly cheap ($587 a piece compared to several thousand for the AW) and they're extremely reliable. The Remington 700 is the same rifle that S.W.A.T. teams across the United States use, it is also the same rifle that the United States Marine Corps Scout Snipers use.

Additionally I'd like to address the M1 Garand issue... it's a great rifle, I've got one in real life, but I paid a F***ING BOAT LOAD for it... mine cost $1400, it seems silly for a non-competative shooter, but it's a really nice rifle. The problem is this, it's a .308, that round is going to cut through a zombie and go right into whatever is behind it, and if I was in CQB with that thing I'd be screwed. Not to mention that they're pretty heavy too, mine's 9.5 lbs unloaded, so figure about 10 lbs. Do you really want to lug a 10lb weapon around with you for however long you'll need to when you could just as easily have a M4A4 that weighs half as much and works just as well, if not better? It's a fine weapon, but an 8 shot "clip" that pinches the crap out of your thumb every time you reload, and it weighing 10lbs just isn't practical.

Cyber78 - November 20, 2006 10:16 PM (GMT)
Those are some absolutely great points that I think we overlooked. I'll definatley take those into consideration.

Arnold Johnston - November 20, 2006 11:05 PM (GMT)
hooray for knowing way to much about firearms!

Templar - November 22, 2006 03:03 AM (GMT)
Some people call it barbaric and philistine... I call it being prepared and always having that great ice breaker lined up.

TheConman - November 27, 2006 03:52 AM (GMT)
Hey guys, I'm new. I was reading the previous posts and had a thought about our weapons. I am no fire arms expert, I'm just going to say that now, so bear with me.

I think our standard Sidearm should be the M1911, as its a proven weapon, and sexy. Also, the government probably has an assload in surplus. And since our budget is all crappy and such, that would help a boatload.

The SMG, well, thats up in the air. The MP5 can be had for as low as 400 a pop, and its a damn good gun when chambered in 9mm. but, since you guys want to use .45, what about the UMG, its pretty darn good isnt it? expensive yes, but worth it.

Sniper Rifle Remington 700. It works, and if you have to take a zombie out at 800m then you should just walk away. Your far enough that you aren't in any danger.

shotgun, I don't know enough about them so...

Any who, thats my two cents. *Puts on flame retardant suit*

Templar - November 27, 2006 04:03 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (TheConman @ Nov 27 2006, 03:52 AM)
The SMG, well, thats up in the air. The MP5 can be had for as low as 400 a pop, and its a damn good gun when chambered in 9mm. but, since you guys want to use .45, what about the UMG, its pretty darn good isnt it? expensive yes, but worth it.

Sniper Rifle Remington 700. It works, and if you have to take a zombie out at 800m then you should just walk away. Your far enough that you aren't in any danger.

UMG? Do you mean the UMP?

And the FVZA is a Zombie and Vampire extermination agency. If you are 800m from a zombie and you are part of the FVZA, you are gunna want to pull the trigger.

You have good points though. Oh, and by the way, we are a generally friendly forum... no need for flaming.

... But then again it can always be fun... *Laughs evilly as he pulls out a flamethrower*

Arnold Johnston - November 27, 2006 04:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (TheConman @ Nov 26 2006, 10:52 PM)
Hey guys, I'm new. I was reading the previous posts and had a thought about our weapons. I am no fire arms expert, I'm just going to say that now, so bear with me.

I think our standard Sidearm should be the M1911, as its a proven weapon, and sexy. Also, the government probably has an assload in surplus. And since our budget is all crappy and such, that would help a boatload.

The SMG, well, thats up in the air. The MP5 can be had for as low as 400 a pop, and its a damn good gun when chambered in 9mm. but, since you guys want to use .45, what about the UMG, its pretty darn good isnt it? expensive yes, but worth it.

Sniper Rifle Remington 700. It works, and if you have to take a zombie out at 800m then you should just walk away. Your far enough that you aren't in any danger.

shotgun, I don't know enough about them so...

Any who, thats my two cents. *Puts on flame retardant suit*

There'll be no flaming, but I think that everyone could due with a little research into firearms.

The UMG isn't a real SMG, it's what G&G Armament called it's airsoft replication of the H&K (Heckler and Koch) UMP. The UMP (Universale Maschinenpistole) was created as a replacement to the aging MP5. The UMP is chambered in 9mm, .40 cal, and .45 cal.

Though some say that having a sidearm and a primary weapon that are chambered to the same caliber are a good idea, I tend not to agree... but hey, that's just my opinion. A .45 can really put a guy (or a zombie for this instance) on his ass.

Templar - November 27, 2006 04:10 AM (GMT)
Ah, the confusion came from an airsoft-to-real-gun conversion.

I was wondering for a second there.

Arnold Johnston - November 27, 2006 04:13 AM (GMT)
It seems to be a common thing here... that and confusing real guns with the guns from counter-strike... though I can't imagine why...

Templar - November 27, 2006 04:16 AM (GMT)
This is why Wikipedia is so good for today's youth.

Jay - November 27, 2006 04:18 AM (GMT)
I've generally found that Wikipedia contains more relevant information than many other sites, due to the open-editing thing:

Person 1: *posts info*
Person 2: *spots discrepancy and fixes, possibly posts new info*

And so on.

Templar - November 27, 2006 04:19 AM (GMT)
It makes things just so much prettier when people work together like that.




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