Title: Fire by Horne Lake
Description: Youths Charged
EasyRider - April 9, 2012 04:15 PM (GMT)
Looks like some "kids" started a fire by horne lake over the weekend. I saw the ELFD still there this morning. I don't know what the fire dept and water bombers cost, but if the "kids" parents end up being responsible for it, it is going to be quite a hefty bill.
Justin - April 9, 2012 05:14 PM (GMT)
According to what I've read, the person or persons involved are old enough to know better. They should receive charges of some sort.
I think parents should be held accountable for what their children under the age of 18 do. However that being said, i don't believe they should have to foot the bill for every time their child does something wrong. Maybe more an option for the courts, based on past behaviour and if negligence on the part of parenting is a factor.
Buster - April 9, 2012 08:46 PM (GMT)
See Ontario Parental Responsibility Act (Google it-0
2. (1) Where a child takes, damages or destroys property, an owner or a person entitled to possession of the property may bring an action in the Small Claims Court against a parent of the child to recover damages, not in excess of the monetary jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court,
(a) for loss of or damage to the property suffered as a result of the activity of the child; and
(B) for economic loss suffered as a consequence of that loss of or damage to property.
(2) The parent is liable for the damages unless the parent satisfies the court that,
(a) he or she was exercising reasonable supervision over the child at the time the child engaged in the activity that caused the loss or damage and made reasonable efforts to prevent or discourage the child from engaging in the kind of activity that resulted in the loss or damage; or
(B) the activity that caused the loss or damage was not intentional.
Maximum amount in Small Claims Court is $25,000.
Just a thought!
EasyRider - April 9, 2012 10:36 PM (GMT)
I dont know what those water bombers cost per hour, but 25,000 might not cover it, especially if you add in the cost for the ground fire fighters. It would be one heck of a life lesson in responsibility though.
Tinkle - April 9, 2012 11:59 PM (GMT)
As young offenders we all know they aren't going to get into too much trouble for this. I don't understand why the courts can't, as part of their sentence, force them to participate in some kind of community service that would teach them a valuable lesson about what their actions have done. There is a lot of cleanup involved after a bush fire I assume and it would be nice if they had to help in that cleanup. The problem is by the time they go to court the cleanup will be done. Still it might behoove the judge to say, as part of their sentence, that they must assist in cleanup after the next bushfire. We all know there will be more. Young offenders need to see the aftermath of their actions. They need to experience first hand what kind of trauma the things they do can cause. Will it help to deter them? Who knows but it can't hurt.
Justin - April 10, 2012 12:52 AM (GMT)
This article is already a couple years old, add inflation and I'm certain the cost would be in excess of 10,000 an hour.
"The MNRís water bomber costs $9,000 per hour to operate and one of their helicopters costs $1,600. "cost of water bomber
Prewitt - April 10, 2012 02:05 AM (GMT)
Anything criminal anyone does under the age of 18 should be considered parental responsibility? And that's true for armed robbery, rape and murder? Sounds like a pretty good deal for anyone under that magical cut-off date and I wonder if they realize it?
Thinking about when I was f.........up pretty good under that age for a few years, nothing criminal, but certainly enough to get my parents worried, considering the neighborhood environment and what they knew about it. And remembering, without a doubt, I would have said at the time the responsibility was mine, not my parents and they would have agreed.
safecracker - April 16, 2012 03:22 PM (GMT)
Ok so here is the reality.
Donít pass laws that say that I cannot as a parent, make my kids stay in after dark, discipline them when they are bad, give them a spanking, yell at them in public for being misbehaved, and basically teaching them right from wrong.
And then say and by the way ď you are responsible monetarily for how they turn out and what they do when they are away from home.
You just canít fix stupid can you? ~
Tinkle - April 17, 2012 10:59 PM (GMT)
Very well put SC. If we as parents can't be completely responsible for the parenting of our children without interference from the gov't how can we be held responsible for their actions?
I grew up respecting my elders, not walking on my neighbor's lawns, and knowing if I misbehaved at home I was "going to get it" and if I misbehaved at school I was "going to get it". Today's youth know we as adults have no power of authority and therefor they dgara!
Justin - April 18, 2012 07:55 PM (GMT)
I don't agree with that. The laws are in place for the protection of the child from abuse no doubt. At the same time a respomsible parent doesn't have to worry about being charged. I raised my kids to respect others and they also know I have a limit and will apply what it takes. I have hit one of my kids once in her life and I make no appologies for it. The result was she never again challenged me , nor did the two youngest behind her. My house, my rules.
Justin - April 18, 2012 07:58 PM (GMT)
Sammy - April 18, 2012 09:51 PM (GMT)
Justin you hit? or spanked.. i know to some it is the same thing.. not to me.. to hit is to strike. to spank is to be blunt using a blunt hand.. on a blunt object..
EasyRider - April 18, 2012 11:01 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Justin @ Apr 18 2012, 03:58 PM)|
| Please fix Easy |
Done ... =:cheers:
Justin - April 19, 2012 01:00 AM (GMT)
How ever it's defined isn't important. My kids knew full well that there was a limit, and what I said was law. To give up on my position, to me is the same as failing them. I'll give all the credit to my children for making the right decisions in life, and one of them included knowing the limits.
fred - April 19, 2012 01:14 AM (GMT)
Looking back, how in hell did us 'old folks' ever manage to survive the 40's, 50's, 60's and even the 70's???
First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing and tuna from a can and no one got tested for diabetes.
Then we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-base paints. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, no locks on doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had baseball caps not helmets on our heads.
As infants and children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, no booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no brakes. Riding in the back of a pick-up truck on a warm day was always a special treat.
We drank water direct from a garden hose (after washing out the bugs and spiders) and not from a special bottle. We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and no one actually died from this. We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter and bacon. We drank Kool-Aid made with real white sugar. And, we weren't overweight. WHY?
Because we were always outside playing... that's why!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back in our own yard when the streetlights came on. Then we begged to stay out just 10 more minutes.
No one was able to reach us all day. And, we were all... O.K. We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps of wood and then ride them down a steep hill, only to find out we had forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes and a telephone pole or three a few times, we learned to solve the brake problem.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's and X-boxes. There were no video games, no 150 channels on an HD TV cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms. WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! Then we invented our own games.
We fell out of trees regularly, got cut, broke bones and knocked out teeth and... there were no lawsuits from these accidents.
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays and sling shots were made from the Y of an alder bush, We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, I never knew any kid who had his eye put out.
We rode our bikes or walked miles to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them, face to face.
Sand lot ball games and Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment and maybe learned to try harder next time. Imagine that! We all survived.
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. The parents actually sided with the law!
My generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever.
The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others who have had the good luck and great fortune to actually grow up as kids, before the school boards, lawyers, the media and the government regulated so damn much of our lives... 'for our own good'. While you are at it, forward this to your kids so they will know just how brave and lucky their parents were.
Reading this back to myself kind of makes me want to run through the house laughing like hell with scissors in my hand.
***fred/12***a certified olde curmudgeon*** with the papers to prove it***
Buster - April 19, 2012 01:44 AM (GMT)
Well said Fred.
From this curmudgeon! How did we survive anyway?
fred - April 19, 2012 02:18 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Buster @ Apr 18 2012, 08:44 PM)|
| Well said Fred.|
From this curmudgeon!† How did we survive anyway?
I think "LIFE" was much less complicated during our formative years Buster....we respected our "elders", our parents, and yes, our teachers.......we learned right from wrong, and gritted our teeth while our arses were being caned for doing wrong....
These days.........whole new ballgame.....everyone for themselves I guess...not a happy outlook for the future I'm afraid..... :( :(
mytwocents - April 19, 2012 03:45 AM (GMT)
For anyone who thinks a good beating teaches kids respect and to follow rules, it doesn't. I work with these kids and it only causes them to fear and not respect people that they should trust. We really have lost kids with respect and discipline does need to become more strict in my opinion. The young lad who was charged, should be working this off. He's old enough to know right from wrong. Unfortunately, he will get a slap on the hand or a his parents will have to pay the price. It's all a big joke to the kids!
Justin - April 19, 2012 12:45 PM (GMT)
I don't believe anyone said a child needed a "good beating". The young man who was responsible for the fire should indeed be working it off. I once had my son out cutting and splitting wood for 5 hrs because he had come home impaired the night before, at the age of 16. The unfortunate truth is that there are child labour laws, then there are WSIB regulations, then every child protection agency in the province all jumping up in arms because one young person is being held accountable for a stupid act. Yes, the very least this kid deserves is to work it off via community service, after all, it is this communities taxes that will now have to pay the MNR, and Blind River fire detachments for the cost of fighting that fire. It's not as though this community needed yet more pressure on the fragile balance of its budget.
Let me make it clear, it was a stupid act, and I'm not implying that the kid is stupid, simply what he did was stupid.
Buster - April 19, 2012 10:07 PM (GMT)
You know, I guess this is all about respect for your elders and for the rules of life. I was taught that with a structure at home.
My mom and dad were both schoolteachers at one time and they occasionally gave me a wallop but it was more scary than real.
I remember one afternoon when I was 14 or 15 where I was 'disrespectful' to my mother. My father came home about 5:30 and sent me to my room. He did not come up until 8:30: I remember that the wait was very long. He proceeded to take his belt off and asked me why he should do. We agreed that my behaviour deserved punishment. (I kept hoping his pants would fall down!) At the time I was at least six inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.
I turned over and he laid out a half dozen whacks and we agreed I wouldn't do that again. Remember this clearly - over 50 years ago: lesson was learned.
There are consequences... Today, children are not taught that there are consequences to behaviour. You know: you can do anything, you can be anything you want, etc... Life is not like that: there are courts and rules that limit your activities. you need money to do certain things and you need ability and hard work to do what you want. There is no magic wand...
Again, just venting.