Divers and Collectors, views on collecting live shells

I need some viewpoints of collectors. I belong to several Scuba forums and ask my usual questions about shell collecting laws and dive charter boats that permit it. Usually instead of answering me, I take it in the neck about the terrible thing we do--collect and KILL live shells. Has anyone experienced this with people other than divers?

Well Tom, I guess I’ll try to get the ball rolling with a few comments.

Yep! And, I’m often one of those that’s the critic. Yet, I regularly collect live shells. It’s all a matter of context. For me, the issue is a matter of why and what is collected. We are living in a shrinking world in which we are destroying enormous areas of habitat and there are ever more of us to impact and destroy other living things. There is little doubt that we are diminishing diversity by reforming local and global natural habitats and ecosystems, thereby accelerating extinctions. So, an awareness and sensitivity to the needless or excessive killing of living creatures (especially where they are in decline) should be a priority.

Large numbers of shells are killed daily by normal environmental events such as predation, disease and environmental trauma. The issue for collectors is whether the additional pressure we impose by taking live shells makes a measurable difference. My belief is that “responsible shell collecting” does not. And, here are my rules for being a responsible shell collector.

1. Know what you are collecting and how to clean it. Don’t collect it unless you know you can and will clean it and put it to good use. “Good use” is as a specimen shell and never for craft (see #3).
2. Don’t kill it if it will just end up thrown away (can’t take it on the plane, no time to clean, etc.) or to just end up stored in a box or drawer.
3. Collect for the sake of knowledge, facilitating science-oriented knowledge, sharing knowledge and sharing what is collected.
4. Collect for representation of a species and not simply for the biggest, best, or to have a lot.
5. Collect live material only in limited numbers, only when known to be plentiful, preferably from artificial habitats where they would not otherwise exist, or in circumstances where the certainty is high they will die (as in live shells tossed upon the beach by storms) or be destroyed in the very near future by manmade trauma.
6. Never collect species from areas where they are scarce.
7. Carefully examine all live-collected material and leave in place any specimens you will not actually use in accordance with #3.
6. Never collect shells to trade or give away unless for a source you know will use them in accordance with #3.
7. If you do collect be sure the collection is documented, inventoried and provision has been made for it to pass on to another responsible collector or a museum.
8. Don’t collect for the purpose of joining a social club or to win ribbons and trophies at shell shows. If this is your main interest, choose a collecting hobby that doesn't destroy habitat and kill wildlife.
10. Don’t buy shells from anyone except dealers who deal only in specimen shells and preferable are collectors themselves.

I believe that by following these rules, encouraging and educating others to do so, and being critical of irresponsible collectors when you see them, collectively, responsible collectors will not have a measurable or deleterious impact on living populations.

See also discussion at: Thoughts on shell collecting

Marlo, I agree with everything you wrote (try explaining these to divers). Must admit, I have done nothing regarding point #7 (donate to museum after your passing, etc.), but will look into it. TH

My parents collected shells in the 1940s and 1950s. I began seriously collecting in the 1960s.
For the first few decades, I was free to visit the reefs, to wander the backwaters of the Keys by night with a Coleman lantern, to stop anywhere along the coasts and estuaries to try the grasses and substrates with hand nets. It was a joy.
I never believed that my activities significantly endangered populations or the environment. Folks were often very interested to see what I was finding and I enjoyed sharing with them what I knew about the Florida shallows.
By the 1980s, I began to hear "Are you going to kill them?"
By the end of the 1990s, collecting restrictions were too much to bear. I gave it up. It was like losing part of myself - a part that loved life.

Lysiloma

Yeah. I started colleting in about '69- mostly snorkeling when I was 15. My entire teaching career was inland, so I only got scuba certification in '05 at age 51. Now that I can go down to get the really good specimens, I am a serial killer. Everybody else got theirs for their collections and now when it's finally my turn, I jump through hoops everywhere, especially in the south.

Hi Tom. Lysiloma = Phil P., the guy who traded you a net for calipers.
I consoled myself with studying, buying and photographing Liguus. Not nearly as challenging as marine collecting but it has advantages. My dermatologist approves of the reduction of exposure to the sun.

Phil (Lysiloma)

I'm back on the old soap box. Two things happened to me this past Fall while diving. Once I found a moon snail and another diver was shocked when I told her I would remove the animal and place it in my collection. Years ago the comment would've been like "Ooh, how pretty--there's something inside it, how will you get it out". Another time a diver saw the poker I attach to my leg for spearing flounders (to eat) that lie on the bottom. He said "Leave them alone, they're my freinds" (I've so far speared ONE in 6 months). So this leads to more questions.
1. How come on the scuba forums spear fishermen hardly ever get blasted like shell collectors?--only once in a great while. Divers seem more concerned with getting shot with a spear than with the environment.
2.Why are so few shell collectors divers and so few divers collectors? My excuse was living 30 years in Northern Manitoba and there are no shells really worth collecting in those lakes. Soon as we moved to Nova Scotia, I got certified (with pretty much the sole reason to collect). Seems to me scuba is the best way to collect, yet only a small percentage of collectors dive. I'm always interested in hearing how and where others dive to collect, and how they avoid being criticized.
3.Why are almost no divers that I've met (in person or on line) interested in shells? In the many dive magazines I read divers always talk about fish, anemones, turtles, wrecks, octopi,etc. but never shells. Correction--The one time a diver wrote about shells in a mag. went like this: "On the sandy area there was nothing at all to see, except a few conchs". Divers say that taking shells keeps future divers from seeing them. Well, none of them care about them anyway, so why are they concerned?! These environmentally sound divers certainly have read that responsible collecting by individuals for their collections has basically no impact on populations. Or maybe they haven't really looked into it.

Hi Tom,

You have my sympathy. I collected via SCUBA for many years in the early 80's. I agree with you that it is one of the best ways to collect - nondestructive, allows you to be selective, and a beautiful experience. But, I did all my SCUBA collecting either alone or with other shellers (had my own boat back then). My experiences with dive groups was that each subgroup or individual had a focus of interest and rarely had time (or tolerance) for others' interests. It also seemed to me that many divers were "newbees" in the first flush of excitement with a particular aspect (spearfishing, lobstering, photography, touring, wreck diving, etc.) and most soon departed the activity. After all, SCUBA is an expensive activity that takes a lot of time and can be hazardous.

Much of the antagonism toward collectors is emotionally based without any understanding of the difference between responsible specimen collecting and the irresponsible destruction by many "collectors," and also cannot distinguish the differences from the media reports of abuses resulting from commercial exploitation. If you can truly say your collecting is to further knowledge, facilitating science-oriented knowledge, sharing knowledge and sharing what is collected, then this is what you should describe to critics.

Scuba operators are always protecting their own interests. If they think that most of their clients will be offended by shell collecting, they will be against it. If most of their clients are spear fishermen, then the deck can look like a slaughter house.

Most people don't know enough about ANYTHING to have a strong opinion - but, they still do. If they have no interest in shells, then it is likely to be the most politically correct opinion, especially if in a group of ill-informed politically correct individuals.

I do not think that private, noncommercial, shell collectors have much of an impact except in the most touristy warm water locations. And much of this impact is from people that WE would not consider shell collectors.

So what are you going to do?

For years I had considered some kind of shell exchange. Not like the conventional version, but an exchange of shell collecting expeditions, where, say, a collector in the Great Northwest (USA) takes a buddy from Florida out to his well known and LEGAL collecting spots and then visa versa. This would be especially great for SCUBA collectors - like me.


Russ
Bring a dry suit

That's an excellent Idea Russ.

Hi all,

When I'm out diving among non-collecting divers, I tend not advertise the fact. Not out of fear of "getting caught," I respect the law. Rather, I simply get tired of unfair and emotional criticism. When it happens, I try to listen and not get angry. But the frustrating part is the "right or wrong" mentality and unwillingness to to listen.

I've also found it interesting how criticism is strongly biased towards the more aesthetic shells. A shiny cowry will receive greater criticism than, say, a tiny shell that can hardly be appreciated when viewed by the naked eye. Then, rather than criticism, it'll be more a question of "why did you want to collect that?" Go figure?

Hear ya on that. That's why micros are appealing, to a novice it just looks like a pile of sand, rubble and seaweed until sorted.

In reference to Tom's post above about "why are there not more divers who are collectors," I think there probably are more than we realize. Since the taking of live shells is either prohibited in some areas or no longer considered "politically correct," I suspect a lot of diving collectors continue their hobby privately.

I imagine that there has to be a large percentage of collectors who don't belong to any clubs, forums, listserves, etc., or some that do but lurk and do not post or contribute.

Yes, I'm certain there are many active shell collectors who keep a low profile. Perhaps the public will progress towards a more balanced point-of-view with time.

Russ, Your idea of some sort of exchange for diver-collectors to help each other is a good idea. I wonder how one would get this sort of thing going? Maybe as a sub-forum here? Hey, I'm computer dumb.

I could create a forum with a title like:

Let's Go Shelling Together (Seeking and offering to collect with others in one or the other's home area)

I think that would be a good idea.

Russ

OK, forum created.

I don't watch the television often. It bores me, the programming (these days) is terrible for the most part, and frankly, there is enough bad things going on in our backyards these days why watch more of it.

All that being said, I did happen to watch a program on that big news channel on the television, about a sport.....wait, a sport? Yes, what some call a sport, about noodling. For those who do not know what this is, it is the art of catching catfish in waters with your bare hands. Like many familie's ancestors did in the old days.

In a way, I could relate this to this thread. The legality issue was on on environmental awareness, saying the noolders would have a huge impact on the catfish numbers.

The whole story was about how noodling is legal in some states, but not legal in other states, some of which share a border. The entire "sport" is up in arms about it, and there is much support for either side.

The way that it is related, albeit, distantly, is this. The man who was interviewed in the program (a man who wanted to noodle) was asked why it should be made legal, and what he said made perfect sense. He said, there are 500 people in this state who enjoy to noodle in our club. We only want ot harvet 5 fish per year, per member.There are 400,000 licensed ( mind you, he said licensed, there is probably that same number who are NOT) fishermen who can take 20 of the same catfish per DAY per year. To make the math easier lets say each fishermen gets 20 fish per year total. THe noodlers cannot take any catfish at any point of the year, currently.

the math- 20 fish, per fisherman, per year, times 400,000members = 8 million fish

the noodlers want 5 fish per year x 500 members = 2,500 fish

all this is speculative, of course, but in my opinion, the hugest impact on the environment is from people who actually...FISH!

Can local government not see how wildly lopsided this is? Unbelievable.

Think about it....

So, in terms of shelling,,,,,we are mostly scientific collectors. We are not out to collect 1000 specimens of cypraea cervus in the keys each time we go there. Sometimes it makes me wonder if this is some sort of power policy type issue or indeed a true envornmental impact issue. THe ones who abuse the law and poach snails, fish and other marine animals for the aquarium or specialty sale business do far worse damage then any person who collected seashells could do, and that type of thing is rampant in the Keys and elsewhere in the world.

I saw a guy in the Keys once with an actual 10 gallon aquarium, that he was loading up with tiny fish he caught with a dipping net, and he had at least 200 star snails (astraea) in there too. He was doing this from a boat launch on Marathon, plainly out in the open without a care or concern. When I asked what he was collecting he even showed me. Believe it or not, I saw another guy doing this same thing with the fish ( no astraea snails though) from the small boat launch on the causeway going into Merritt Island from A1A.

Lyle



Do the math, and figure out who causes