Revised Guild Ranks, HOT HOT!

As Niliaen so ellequently said in our round table private chat today:

"Guild promotions enhance guild morale."
and
"I think we should consider promoting people that have shown there dedication to the guild, sometimes by simply remaining in the guild."

I think he is right. It's been many months since we've looked at our rank structure and requirements, and it's time to look at both again.

RTMs: Please read through this and make comments - Let's moderinize this, finalize it, then actively promote/demote individuals as required when we're done.

Guildies: If you'd like to chime in, please feel free to start topic(s) in the guild chat section of our forums, and/or talk to any RTMs in-game, thru email, or even better, on Vent. :)




The Spreadsheet Pics in the middle of THIS LINKED thead list a close approximation of our current in-game permission settings.

As stated in several places around our forums, the only basic requirement for guild membership is to treat others as you would like to be treated. There are however several ranks available in the guild, and this post will clarify what is expected or required to achieve and maintain those ranks.

*Note: In effort to keep the ranks meaningful and current, and promote the type of interpersonal communication that helps us thrive, any unexplained 60 day offline period will result in demotion. I imagine this will rarely be used as most guildies this would apply to are rarely above intitiate anyway. :)

Initiate
Requirements: Browse our public forums and recruitment section in particular. Understand the basic idea of our guild then pass a relatively simple officer interview for /ginvite.

Expectations: Keep your language clean and be helpful and curteous to others.

Monk:
Requirements: Create a forum account and at least come and say hello.
Expectations: Demonstrate basic understanding of guild goals and principles.

Abbott:
Requirements: Meet above reqs and:
Demonstrate at least semi-active forum participation, occasionlly sign up for groups on our raid planner, and use ventrilo for our groups.
Expectations:
Continue to assist guildies with and promote use of forums, raid planners, ventrilo. Demonstrate a positive attitude and solid understanding of guild goals and principals. Be willing to gently correct any noticed inappropriate behavior from other guildies and inform officer/GM if necessary.

Bishop:
Senior Guild Member
Requirements: Demonstrate active forum participation use ventrilo and raid planner. Demonstrate good stewardship and willingness to donate to guild resources (vault, etc...)
Expectations:
Be an example and guide to fellow guldies -- display the true Heart of the Guild.

-=-=-=-

Event Leader
Intention: Empower guildies to take charge and better everyone's gaming experience. This being said, I would hope to see others that don't want the responsibility of this title to feel free to ask any officer/event leader to schedule and lead something they have in mind.

Requirements:
Volunteer for and be aproved by Guild Officers.

Expectations:
Foremost: Be patient. Encourage, support, and mentor guildies -- enrich our overall fun-factor and improve individual gaming skills and group dynamics/teamwork. Take charge when necessary, keep a cool head, listen to others.

1) Plan, form, and lead guild groups (instances, etc...)
2) Participate actively on our forums.
3) Promote use of our raid/event planner, forums, and Ventrilo.
4) Be willing to interview new guildies and inform officers of potential recruits.
5) Take the time to talk to others, and especially listen to them, then work out the details, create event on the planner (if necessary) then endeavor to make it happen (through forum posts, guild chat messages, guild MotD, etc...). 8^)


Vault Manager:
Intention: Manage our vault.

Requirements:
Volunteer for the position and be aproved by Guild Officers.

Expectations:
Be responsible. Organize and manage vault resources.
Discuss "questionable" transactions with "offending" guildies and give them benifit of the doubt. Educate the guild at-large of our banking practices. Inform officers of any possible misuse.

-=-=-=-
Officer expectations and responsibilities:
All officers are responsible to exemplify the Heart of the Guild, and guide/mentor members of all ranks of <Archangel>. Officers also have the authority to make any and all guild decisions at their discresion and wide lattitude will be given to their decisions. Any questionable Actions OR In-Actions should be brought to Joftinac's personal attention.

Angel: Officer Alts
Cherubim: Officer Main Characters
Seraphim: First Officer / Co-GM (Joft & Ast's Alts as well)
The Archangel: Me. :)

Requirements: Be commissioned by Joftinac with full consent of current officers.

Expectations: Take charge when necessary, always keep a cool head, and listen to others. Participate regularly in guild forums and events.

Lead by example.

OK, this has gone through several re-writes and corrections. My desire here is to spawn discussion over the ranks we have and how we use them. I have removed several descriptive sections from this post so that we can focus on the ranks and requirements to hold those ranks. We will have the opportunity to discuss administrative rights and privileges later on a different task. So, in order to meet the intent of Joft’s task request, I have streamlined this post.

The Guildies
There are four ranks for the folks that fit into "the Guildies". Initiate, Monk, Abbott, and Bishop. This allows for more mobility in the lower ranks for those who wish to progress but not necessarily be Officers.
Initiate:
- This rank is a trial period allowing the Guild to evaluate the new member, and the new member to evaluate the Guild.
- Promoted to Monk within 30 days, assuming no behavior issues and requirements are met for Monk.

Monk:
- Create forum account.
- Application filed on forums.
- Read and agree with “Expectations of Archangel Guildies, (9/12/06)”
- Demonstrate basic understanding of guild goals and principles.

Abbott:
- Meet requirements for Monk and:
- Guildies who have shown initiative, exemplify Guild values.
- Participate in forum discussions OR
- Participate in Guild Functions.

Bishop: Senior Guild Member
Meet requirements for Abbott and:
- Demonstrate at least semi-active forum participation
- Consistently participate in guild events.
- Assist other guildies with and promote use of forums, raid planners, ventrilo.
- Demonstrate a positive attitude and solid understanding of guild goals and principals
- Be willing to gently correct any noticed inappropriate behavior from other Guildies and inform officer/GM if necessary.
- Display the true Heart of the Guild.


Guild Leadership
Officers and Guildies with special duty positions make up the Guild Leadership: Round Table Members (RTMs), Event Leaders, Vault Managers and the Officer Cadre.

Special Duty Positions: RTM, Event Leader, Vault Manager
Any Guild member may be chosen or volunteer for positions as a RTM, Event Leader, or Vault Manager. These positions do not imply rank. It is a position held, not a rank you obtain. Therefore, Guildies with special duty positions do not necessarily have officer rank. For example, it is possible for a Monk to be a RTM but not have the privileges of an officer, such as promotion/demotion, etc. Of course, you may also have a Vault Manager who holds the rank of Angel or Bishop.

These positions follow all previously outlined guidance on conduct and requirements. However, Event Leaders and Vault Managers (who do not hold Officer Rank) should not have administrative privileges such as removing people from the guild. This is due to the nature of their job. It is to enhance morale through positive events and fair and just vault management. Removing people from the guild may cause a conflict with that mission. RTMs holding the rank of Bishop (therefore non-officers) will not have Guild administrative abilities (again, promotions/demotions, invites/kicks, etc).


Officer Ranks: Again, same guidance applies.
Angel: Officer Main Characters
The Archangel: The Guildmaster

This post has been edited by Niliaen on Sep 14 2008, 11:18 AM

What do you concider a guild event? trivia, gnome race, and/or instance runs.

In my eyes the only one that should be able to kick guild members is the GM. It should be voted on then they should be removed by GM.

Yes, all of those are guild events. In short, any activity that provides a positive environment in the guild. Is that political enough :p

As for /gkicks, etc. I believe that all officers should be able empowered to run the guild in the absence of the GM. They must realize they are making decisions on behalf of the GM. That the ramifications of their decision has a direct effect on guild welfare and the image that the guild portrays.

FYI: I added to my plan up there that left something out of the Initiate rank...

I have been considering this, and have decided to make a compare and contrast type post, then add my own comments. I think this intent of this thread is strictly RANK STRUCTURE so I will keep that focus as I post here. If I stray from that let me know please as sometimes I fall of on tangents.

Niliaen stated there are four ranks in the "Guildies" arena, being military I look at these as "enlisted ranks" they are: Initiate, Monk, Abbott, and Bishop. To start with I need to ask a question purely because this is unfamiliar territory for me and it is something I will need to know for future reference:

Are these game dictated ranks? ( I guess I have sub questions)
Does the game dictate ranks like 1, 2, 3, 4 ... ETC and we have named them?
Does the game dictate these ranks and name then and we are subject to that limitation?
Can we rename these ranks?
Can we add ranks if we felt like it?

Now on to the meat of the post:

Initiate:

Jofts Idea:

Requirements: Browse our public forums and recruitment section in particular. Understand the basic idea of our guild then pass a relatively simple officer interview for /ginvite.

Expectations: Keep your language clean and be helpful and courteous to others.

Niliaens Idea:

- This rank is a trial period allowing the Guild to evaluate the new member, and the new member to evaluate the Guild.
- Promoted to Monk within 30 days, assuming no behavior issues and requirements are met for Monk.

My Thoughts:

I know that when I joined Joft told me he had pretty much made a rule that in order to join the guild you would need to browse the forum and make a single post introducing yourself. I see a couple of problems... NO, a couple of considerations with that.

1) You will limit the number and type of people you are recruiting. Your only going to get "forum" people to join your guild. Anyone looking for a "family guild"... People who just want to play and do not care about the guild politics and the guild out-of-game discussions, will simply find a different guild. Their are plenty out there to choose from. which is fine if you are looking for that dynamic in the guild

2) You are opening the door to have "requirements". Raiding guild have "requirements" family guilds have "guidelines". I know this is a bit harsh but it is how I feel. Again is that what we want for our guild?

I agree it should probably be a "trial" rank, one you could be promoted out of within a month IF you are willing to put forth an effort of meeting the requirements for the next rank. I look at this in military terms of E-1 where you are pretty much promoted out of it in 6 months as long as you still have a pulse and your body is relatively warm. However there are some very easy requirements you must meet to show you would like to be promoted.

I would give a combination of the two suggested ideas here:

- This rank is a trial period allowing the Guild to evaluate the new member, and the new member to evaluate the Guild.
- Understand the basic idea of our guild then pass a relatively simple officer interview for /ginvite.
- Promoted to Monk within 30 days, assuming no behavior issues and requirements are met for Monk.

Monk:

Jofts Idea:

Requirements: Create a forum account and at least come and say hello.
Expectations: Demonstrate basic understanding of guild goals and principles.

Niliaens idea:

- Create forum account.
- Application filed on forums.
- Read and agree with “Expectations of Archangel Guildies, (9/12/06)”
- Demonstrate basic understanding of guild goals and principles.

My Thoughts:

Both of these are relativity the same. the fundamental difference come from how and when you get promoted to Monk from initiate. I believe no matter what the final decision is we need to hold to it as strictly as possible. No need to keep someone in a lower rank unless it is for a conscious reason.

Military rank of E-3 maybe E-4? has expectations but really just to learn the guild and the game without being a "peon" shows potential to contribute to the guild but could very possible just want to play with a little more out of game interactions?

Abbott:

Jofts Idea:

Requirements: Meet above reqs and:
Demonstrate at least semi-active forum participation, occasionally sign up for groups on our raid planner, and use ventrilo for our groups.
Expectations:
Continue to assist guildies with and promote use of forums, raid planners, ventrilo. Demonstrate a positive attitude and solid understanding of guild goals and principals. Be willing to gently correct any noticed inappropriate behavior from other guildies and inform officer/GM if necessary

Niliaens Idea:

- Meet requirements for Monk and:
- Guildies who have shown initiative, exemplify Guild values.
- Participate in forum discussions OR
- Participate in Guild Functions.

My Thoughts:

This is a tough one... First let me say "meet above requirements should be a given... I don't think anyone will say go from Initiate to Abbott not doing the Monk requirements is a good idea.

After that I see the fundamental difference in these two thought process is forum and Vent usage. While Nili's plan is a bit more subjective, Joft's plan "forces" people to places they may not want to go. should they be penalized if they don't want to be active (simi or otherwise) on a forum board? I personally think forum people will go to forums if they find them interesting with regular posts. no matter how active you make you forums there are people who just don't like to post there. and some don't even like to read.

I don't know where I would go (or recommend) in this area... I would say it really depends on what the guild uses ranks for. If it is really for Vault privileges... I would have to say Forum and Vent should not be required, but guild events on a simi-regular basis probably should be. I mean I would hope people join a guild to play with guild members (Except raiding guilds... different topic). However comma (that for you Nili!) if we are using ranks for guild leadership... requiring forum and passable Vent usage could be a viable option. I mean these are people looking to become the E-8's the top enlisted force... or RTM's in our case. Enlisted ranks that have experience and incite to guild matters. this would be a stepping stone for those that want to make an active difference in the guild. You will have had to show willingness to not through a statement but through actions you are committed to helping out.

Bishop:

Jofts Idea:

Senior Guild Member
Requirements: Demonstrate active forum participation use ventrilo and raid planner. Demonstrate good stewardship and willingness to donate to guild resources (vault, etc...)
Expectations:
Be an example and guide to fellow guldies -- display the true Heart of the Guild.

Niliaens Idea:

Senior Guild Member
Meet requirements for Abbott and:
- Demonstrate at least semi-active forum participation
- Consistently participate in guild events.
- Assist other guildies with and promote use of forums, raid planners, ventrilo.
- Demonstrate a positive attitude and solid understanding of guild goals and principals
- Be willing to gently correct any noticed inappropriate behavior from other Guildies and inform officer/GM if necessary.
- Display the true Heart of the Guild.

My Thoughts:

I think we all agree that this is "Senior Guild Memebr" and as such I believe it should be the lowest rank for an RTM. Saying that I disagree with Simi-active forum participation since that is where most guild information is passed (this is mainly due to time zone differences and play time differences). The big questions is what does Forum participation mean?

Reading the forums?
Posting on the forums?
Taking a test monthly proving you read the forums?

I would say forum participation requires being up to date on the latest information, and a simple "no-comment" on topics that require input from Senior Guild Member". I believe this is a rank you should earn and not to make it HARD, (it is just a game after all) but should have a little effort. Obviously there are times when forum participation can be excused. (no power, computer in shop, Vacation, RL issues). and these would be evaluated on a case by case basis. I believe an absence with out prior coordination of 3 moths or more would be sufficient to down grade the rank.

Participation in guild events? This is very tough for me. May main play time are very different then most of the guild and I know xassin has tried very hard to put up events that all can attend (I believe he has done an outstanding job BTW) RL things and time zone issues make it very difficult for me to attend. I am just not used to getting up at 0600 on Saturday, and this moth just does not leave a lot of early Saturday mornings open for me. I know this sounds like an excuse, but it is just the way it is. I would love to do events with the guild but right now it just seems to not be happening. (OK .. Point .. it is not about me) The point? we are spread out over the globe so using the terms "Consistently participate in guild events" is just too subjective. Although I do like the idea. After all I think if you join a guild you should want to play with the members in that guild. Hopefully, no one in this guild has joined to get help for themselves with intentions of bailing as soon as that is complete, and if they did I hope they never make Bishop!

I am going to end there, as that is all the "enlisted ranks" Officer ranks are a separate subject IMHO as they are guild leadership and should require different requirements. They are the ones who should no longer be though of as "Guild Members" but as "Guild Leadership". Ok, Ok Bishop MAY fall into Guild Leadership... but still as an enlisted force and that is where guild permissions come into play (different topic)

Your opinions? Feel free to discuss. Or post "no comment" if appropriate.

~~Tibby
Narcoleptic Gnome

Wow, you have been doing some thinking. And definitely some typing :p

First, some background that I had to learn from Joft. In-game, the system allows for 10 ranks to be created. The lowest level rank is 0 through 9, which is the Guildmaster I am not sure. Each of those ranks has individual settings that apply such as vault liberties and guild administrative functions. Archangel has named those ranks and currently follow (with some minor deviations) the rank structure set up in Joft's original post. The Guildmaster can choose the number of ranks to use, the name of those ranks and can, of course, choose what privileges are associated with each rank.

I agree that is a good idea and should be included in my proposed policy.

I like the idea of using a simple interview before handing them a guild invite. This is actually in place now, and that policy can be viewed in the Guild Invite 202 Post....link coming.

The issue you bring up in the Monk discussion is the heart of this whole discussion. Whatever rank structure we come up with, we must strictly adhere to a promotion schedule. Meaning that we immediately recognize the achievements of Guildies by promoting them and rewarding them with no hesitation. Joft has set a good precedent on doing this by immediately giving a Guildie the Title, rights and privileges and then holding a promotion ceremony when feasible.

I also agree with your assessment of the Abbott rank. Forcing a person to use Vent or the Forums sets a precedent that leans towards a Guild environment that is not where Archangel is right now. More toward a rule-based, forum led Guild. Allowing a person to progress in ranks without forcing them to the Forums or vent permits achievability that did not exist before for the average Guildie.

However, when it comes to Bishop rank, I feel that as an RTM or other Guild Leader, you should absolutely be involved in the Forums. As the average Guildie, staying up-to-date and semi-active on the forums means checking in once in a while. Definitely prior to guild events, attending a guild sponsored raid, etc. I think that level involvement can and should be expected and meets the needs of the leadership to pass on valuable information.

As for the other issues, I agree with you on those as well. But that is a discussion for another time and place (i.e. time zone consideration for raids, officer duties, etc).

All in all, terrific discussion! Thanks for the comments and your input!

This post has been edited by Niliaen on Sep 16 2008, 12:02 PM

Please see the Poll that is in place regarding the topic.
* * * CLICK HERE TO VOTE * * *


For those that have been absent due to the devastating storm in the U.S. or for other personal reasons, please be assured that your opinion will be heard. If the vote is taken and you still wish to see changes, we can simply go back to discussion.

For those that are struggling with the clean-up and recovery back to your homes. I wish you the best.

And for now, I call for a vote!

Though most Round Table Members don't currently, and aren't planned to have /gkick ability, all Officers will have that as a tool at their disposal with the understanding that it will only be used when absolutely necessary.

There are rare occasions when a /gkick is required on-the-spot. Anyone given the rank of Officer has earned the right AND responsibilty to perform such action if necessary. For non-immediate /gkicks, see "Specific Limitations on the Table" here, regarding the 75% RTM vote rule.

The ranks are numbered 0-9. Only the GM char can rename them. We do not need to use all of them, and we currently have two open rank slots (2&3.) The guild master character will be the only char in rank 0. Current officer (Angel) rank is 1, Initiate rank is 9. :)

So, actually the Cherubim and Seraphim, listed in the current rank structure, have no place in the in-game ranks as it stands at the moment? How much work would it be to move Angel to rank 2 and fow everything from there? Therefore leaving Rank 1 unused at the moment.

That's correct, Cherubim and Seraphim are currently unused ranks and will be removed from the Rank Permissions Spreadsheet when that gets updated.

As for moving ranks (Named ranks from Numbered 1, 2, etc...) that is a bit more complicated due to WoW's internal rank configuration -- it can be done if necessary, but is not a quick easy fix for convenience. :)